No.9440
Rivals to lovers is boring and feel like the lazy ship choice most of the time.
No.9445
>>9441Robots with assholes make no sense unless they're sexbots. Not that it's the only way to be uke but the mainstream BL audience isn't wireplaypilled.
No.9446
>>9442I've seen more and more people online say Clear should have been uke </3
No.9447
>>9445>Robots with assholes make no sense unless they're sexbots.But robots with penises do????
>>9441Extremely based.
No.9448
>>9446A couple of people misremember him being an uke which I don't really get because of his bad end and parts of his dick flaking off into Aoba's asshole in his good end.
I suppose dumb semes are kinda underrated because of that.
No.9449
>>9447>But robots with penises do????True, they don't, but I feel like either way if you have one LI in a BL game who can't fuck traditionally it'll sadly filter the majority of people.
No.9450
>>9447>But robots with penises do????with robo-jizz too…
>>9448the bad ending was so fucking hot
No.9455
>>9440I got bored of it for a long time but now I'm back on my bullshit. I think the more mundane a rivalship, the less interesting it is. If there's another element to add spice, like they're also enemies or brothers or something, it gets better.
When I think of rivalships I consider top quality, they're pretty much all enemies or started as enemies…
No.9456
>>9438Probably not that unpopular (at least not here, maybe) but what I've thought has been:
>Hypermasc semes and shy uguu ukes have always been shit. >"Fuck canon" isn't a good mindset to have if you completely ignore everything the character stood for. If you headcanonize a character so much that they no longer resemble anything of the original, did you ever like that character at all?>Simultaneously, being a hardass over canon and canonicity is also annoying. Not everything needs to be canon, not everything needs a "erm this character cannot fuck another character because he's canonically married to a woman" or dumb shit like that. Canonhomofags are the worst.>I fucking hate threesome ships and specially polyships where the only reason why there's a third character involved it's only so they can get humilliated and cucked. >Actually polyshipping in general is dogshit>People need to stop sucking off eastern artists because they have the most retarded lowkey misogynistic takes too on shipping. Some of them have moid tier coombrain logic and try to apply it to BL No.9457
>>9443its a little sad that hes the only nitro chiral shota, he was so cute
No.9458
>>9456>Actually polyshipping in general is dogshitI also think it's garbage. The only time I've ever been convinced that a polyship was the way to go was in a fanfic with bodyswapping involved that resulted in a lot of crossed wires for the characters, but I think the story would've been even better if they hadn't all ended up in a poly relationship anyway because at least two of the relationships made no sense and one of them was clearly just a sexual relationship.
>they have the most retarded lowkey misogynistic takes too on shippingI agree. I think at least the Japanese fujos have gotten better at not being retarded about gender roles in recent years, but it's still there. Chinese and Korean fujos are absolutely overrun with it though.
No.9460
>>9456>I fucking hate threesome ships and specially polyshipsDifferent reasons to you anon. They're usually used as a band aid solution to ship wars in a "can't we all just get along?" way but when you scroll through the user's profile and you'll instantly know they're disingenuous. Nevermind if you're actually interested in the polyship and got duped by them. Same way switch shippers try to be superior by saying they have no drama. Really need people to be honest and get off their high horses.
No.9462
i've only read 2 volumes of hikaru ga shinda natsu but it's been a slog to get through. if it was meant to be an exploration of grief the characters' interactions (past and present) are too boring to make me care about their relationship. if it's meant to explore humanity vs monsters there's nothing much going on in that aspect. and as a supernatural series with horror elements none of plot developments or environments feel remotely unsettling. the art is incredible for sure, but even with the mangaka's technical skill i can't quite buy into the horror atmosphere.
the only thing that could hook me in is the fujobait, but then again i don't care for the characters, and appparently monster sex is completely off the books. i guess that's it for me with this series and author.
No.9469
>>9462I want someone else to steal the main concept of Hikaru ga Shinda Natsu and make a BL out of it where the monster literally learns what sexual attraction and human love and emotion is after becoming partially human as someone keeping up with the series. I actually might apply that concept to another fandom with similar characters.
No.9473
>>9472Use Google Translate on your phone. Its tedious and not a perfect translation, but its good enough and better than nothing.
No.9474
>>9473There used to be an injector you could load VNs into to have them run through google translate as you read, I'm suprised no one has made a better version using AI yet.
No.9475
>>9474Oh yeah I saw something like that while I was trying to see how Id play Shingakko in Japanese. But I just went the more accessible albeit inconvenient route. It did its job but I had to wave my hand in front of the camera so it would do a new translation.
But yeah I am surprised too that someone hasn't worked on an improved one since there are so many untranslated VNs.
No.9478
>>9473I could do that yeah but something about machine translations always bothers my autism, it just doesn't sound right for me even when the scanlator cleans up the mistakes. It is indeed better than nothing tho so I might do that.
>>9477I do wanna learn Japanese and have tried a few times but I always get overwhelmed and end up dropping it, even I have a hard time remembering katakana and hiragana. I do wanna learn it, I just gotta see what tools are the best and to get in the right mindset.
No.9482
>I don't like fixed ships, riba is always a fun thing to picture. >Can't get into Harada at all, i don't get the hype. I still need to try and get into her manga>I like uke x uke. I want to see two pretty bishies or handsome guys squirming together… >>9441>The best ships are between two characters that both look like ukes in some way.Hell yeah
No.9484
>>9477nta, but there's already a djt thread. its pretty dead though
>>>/ot/365 No.9494
Big, muscular bottoms are gross and preferring them while constantly shitting on people who like smaller bottoms doesn't make you subversive and Not Like Other Fujos when shit like muscular bottoms and old man yaoi been a growing trend for years.
No.9495
>>9494Sorry nonna I love old man yaoi and I have for years, I don't think it's "not like the other girls" either, I think it's just people growing up and liking more than they previously would.
No.9498
>>9495The point was about people who like it and brag about having a subversive taste than "other fujos".
No.9499
>>9498Same with the switchfags and the polytards. They can't help but to act NLOF and be smug about it
No.9500
>>9494I love muscular bottoms but I never understood bragging about it, it makes sense why someone prefers small bottoms so to be all smug cuz you have a different taste just seems like a waste of time.
No.9506
>>9499Based and truthpilled take. 4 out ot 5 times switchfags are absolutely insufferable in their smugness.
>Errrrm, I don't understand other fujos' obsession with fixed dynamics? Maybe it's just me, but that's like heterofying the ship to me? I know other fujos are vapid bitches who only like AB, but I can enjoy all of the content made because I actually love switching! It's SO much more realistic, you know!>Proceeds to only post 95% BA despite being a self-proclaimed switchfag because it's just a decoy to shit on AB shippers No.9507
>>9506Sometimes I do have a top/bottom preference but I love it more when I find a couple I like to switch on equal amounts. I like it when there is equality in my relationships and it gets less boring with the predictability of who gets what kind of romantic or intimate treatment.
Something very intimate and raw about the usual top becoming the bottom, too.
t.smug switchfag
No.9508
>>9506I like both fixed and fluid because I love variety. I think both sides have a strange tendency to make their own likes law without compromising with others. People love different shit, I'm no different, you're no different. None of us are, so why do switch fags feel the need to make their taste novel from the rest?
No.9510
>>9508Because they get a lot of hate from purists for no reason?
The best part about being the superior switchfag is that I am 100% shielded from the "but why not a woman?" from the editors that want to open the doors to bisexual tops and love triangles that include women.
But its really because I want them to exchange their love equally :3
No.9513
Speaking of switchfagging, I hate multishippers.
People whose only enjoyment of shipping depends on how pretty an art looks like or if something has more amount of fics, more fanart, more artists, etc. Just full on consooom, without having any real dedication or care for the actual ship in question.
It's just vapidness to me. If you don't have an OTP or you don't have any real thoughts on why you like (a ship) or (your ship, assumedly OTP) but yet despite having an "OTP" you still like any of the characters with anyone else, you're not a real shipper and you don't count. You're just a coomer consoomer fujo to me.
No.9514
>>9513I respect your dedication but I just think this sounds mental. Being fujoshi by definition is just liking m/m pairings, and by extension not self-inserting.
No.9515
I assume this is not a very popular opinion since I've legit never met anyone else who feels this way, but I really, really don't like genderbends/nyota, whether it's hetbending or nyota yuri. I don't like the fact that it just feels like an excuse to turn male characters into tittymonsters, there's absolutely 0 consideration for how a male character would actually look like as a woman, and also the fact that genderbending is basically synonymous to male charas being turned into women, while female charas almost never get turned into men makes me feel like it's just an excuse to draw coomshit where it doesn't belong. If I wanted waifus, I'd look up art of waifus. This didn't use to be such a big landmine for me but I feel like the amount of nyota shit has been increasing year after year, to the point there's straight up JP artists who exclusively draw m/m ships as either hetships or yuri. I'm not attracted to women, I do not look up yaoi art to look at pin ups of women. Why is this so common and how do I make it stop.
No.9516
>>9508It's not novel but it's not a majority thing either, so i get it. Bragging about what makes you squee is childish though, it's too personal and not even something you fully control.
>>9494>and old man yaoi been a growing trend for years.This, posts about old man yaoi being le freaky kinky patrician taste get tens of thousands of likes. It's absurd
>>9515>Why is this so commonThere are more bisexual women among fujos than in the larger population
No.9517
>>9515I totally feel you. Even though I'm the type of person who will look at straight ships sometimes I absolutely hate it when someone hetbends a gay ship.
No.9518
>>9516No one is really bragging *unironically*. Its just a knee jerk reaction to people taking offense that people like verse couples. Sometimes I have a preference but I just cant with the role autism I see posted sometimes. But I dont bring it up because I dont go after other fujos.
>>9515Absolutely. I get it if people want to get creative but there's already so many characters of the sex that they are drawing as so why go out of your way to change it? I dont like it either.
No.9519
>>9513I’m curious if you’re fine with BLVNs with multiple love interests due to routes or if this only applies to OTPs for you
No.9520
>>9513Multishipping doesn't mean shipping everything. It means enjoying more than one dynamic in the story with certain characters. Can you watch Gintama and tell me with a straight face that Gintoki doesn't have chemistry with multiple guys?
And shipping doesn't = endgame. Maybe you see one particular guy as Guy A's perfect husband, but another guy as hatesex material, and another guy as a one time fuck. You can enjoy exploring all of these different possibilities.
Using Gintama as an example, Takasugi and (sorta) Hijikata would be the hate sex, Sougo would be the rando fling, Kamui would be the yandere noncon, and Madao would be the endgame husband.
No.9521
>>9516>This, posts about old man yaoi being le freaky kinky patrician taste get tens of thousands of likes. It's absurdAs an ojisan enjoyer, these posts just make me roll my eyes because I know 90% of the time that they have someone who's barely even 30 or younger in mind like Reigen or maybe an immortal cdrama guy who looks like a twink or some shit.
No.9524
>>9514>>9519I can enjoy other ships in other media and I can like a character with multiple ones in one franchise but in another franchise I may have one ever-constant OTP.
When interacting in a fan circle with people who like my OTP, I don't want to share space with people who just consider my OTP a "side-dish". Like they like/consume (ship 1) related art/fic while not actually understanding it's appeal or doing shit like another anon said "god I wish I was the seme/god I wish I was the uke" and constantly jumping from ship to ship.
When I have an actual dedication to a ship, I'd want to talk with actual shippers of that ship, not consoomers. Because consoomers never have anything meaningful to say, and they're always the one who jump to one franchise to the next anyway once the (current ships) are no longer interesting.
No.9525
>>9523Well people are using this as Shit You Hate 2.0 instead of posting their actual unpopular opinion.
>>9522>>9521Same I hate it when I'm looking for actual old men and people post characters who aren't even older than me lol.
No.9526
>>9524I thought the typical pattern of Migratory Slash Fandom is to jump from juggernaut to juggernaut. Like, going from Destiel to Kylux to Wangxian to Jayvik. Either way it's always pretty easy to tell the difference between people who are dedicated and people who are enjoying ATG type of content. And at least in JP fandom spaces, the uke character x all crowd will usually clearly label.
No.9527
>>9526Migratory Slash Fandom implies that the juggernaut du jour is also shallow/has very little canon basis. On that list only Kylux is pure MSF. Further reading:
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Migratory_Slash_FandomThe name for the girlies who are somehow always into a juggernaut ship is simply "lucky bitches" haha
No.9528
I don’t think I have any truly unpopular fujo opinions. I feel like most opinions will have supporters and dissenters. But I guess it’s probably unpopular with non-slasher-fujos and definitely unpopular with non-fujos, but I love when fujos cry over their ship not being canonized. I like when there’s a fujo meltdown because [insert ship here] didn’t become canon or got letdown by canon. I know it’s considered cringe to care that much over a ship (especially if your an adult), but I like that they cared enough to have a meltdown. I feel like it shows their dedication to the ship. Also there tends to be a boost in fanart and fanfic of the ship in question, so even if I’m not a huge fan of the ship, I still get giddy just thinking about how fujos are just that good at getting to work. The epitome of doing it yourself.
>>9523Kek I love experiencing the classic riba fujo vs fixed fujo fights though
No.9529
>>9518>No one is really bragging *unironically*.I wasn't thinking about you or the other switchfags on fujochan!
>I just cant with the role autism I see posted sometimes.Yeah, it's a little confusing
No.9531
>>9526>>9527I think jimcurly is probably the biggest example of a juggernaut bait ship because I can't imagine anyone seriously actively getting attached to a ship where one of the guys is a literal nugget and the other a misogynist rapist for a very long time
No.9534
>>9524I'd say I agree then, I got annoyed when I clicked on a pixiv set that had mostly a BL ship I'm not into and then like one of my pic OTP.
No.9535
As a multishipper I am the person discord mods hate because I turn up and live write a 2000 word essay of character/dynamic analysis out of nowhere, then come back two days later with a different one. Nobody knows which ship I'll hit next and while I'm pointing at manga chapters and lines of dialogue from episodes, somehow it's stuff that contradicts what other users "headcanon" about them, and when they do agree I feel rather like I'm betraying them when the same guys are then with someone else.
Anyway, I don't think about it usually, but I am consistently drawn to BLpoi fiction that could be jokingly interpreted as a harem. One thing that appeals to me about ABO AUs is being able to acknowledge the harem as a harem without the meta tongue in cheek. I think joking about harems was more popular in the 00s when actual harem genre anime were commonplace but these days there's not many people who try to negotiate a character being in numerous simultaneous relationships and practicing different positions in each. So that preference is probably unpopular? I should also state that the nature of the harem and who collected or gathered first is different in each case, and the harem members end up with their own dynamics. This makes it sound like a mess, and I'm sure part of it is indecision because I want to be kind to each character and explore all parts of them, but I also like the "protagonist" having some desirable charisma.
No.9536
>>9533Ironically I don't get Adachi/Souji at all, but mainly because Adachi/Doujima is better in every imaginable way. With Souji they barely interact and while the
accomplice ending is fun I just struggle to see any chemistry or real underlying romance unlike say Souyou where they is semi-canon onesided pining. Doujima and Adachj on the other hand regularly get drunk together, have the weird ackward domestic dynamic with Nanako, and you can play with jealously and resentment over
Chisato. Fuck, one of these days I need to write my shipping manifesto on them.
I haven't tried Mouthwashing yet, but I liked How Fish is Made so I'll probably check it out at some point, if there wasn't someone here who kept bringing it up I wouldn't even know it had a large shipping community though. As an outsider I see more art of the woman that anything else. I guess quad amputee can appeal to someone though haha.
No.9537
>>9536>Ironically I don't get Adachi/Souji at allThe accomplice ending is gay as hell, their team up in arena was super fujo, Yu is super obsessed with still being besties with Adachi in cross tag battle and everything with the ending of the P4 golden anime lead into that even harder (you're part of our family Adachi san etc etc)
I get Dojima/Adachi but to me it doesn't have nearly as much fujobait as Adachi/Yu, also I like tsundere semes.
No.9538
>>9537Yeah I can see the appeal of Arena stuff (Haven't played Cross-tag didn't realize it had a plot will need to look into that). Part of it is also just thinking all Persona MCs are boring tbh
No.9539
>>9533Hey, Adachi didn't impregnate someone and traumatized them making that 90% of the game. Even though Adachi has had misogynistic dialogue, it's not to the same level as Jimmy. There's something more endearingly pathetic about Adachi while Jimmy is more "typical moid" coded
No.9540
>>9538>Part of it is also just thinking all Persona MCs are boring tbhI've always been a silent protagonist shipper, but I get that it's not for everyone.
>>9539I get the appeal of it, sometimes you just wanna see an incel get some dick/ass from a guy. I guess it comes from a level of irony since characters like Jimmy would most likely be homophobic kek.
I just don't really get how the game got so gigantic so quickly.
No.9541
>>9540>I just don't really get how the game got so gigantic so quickly.You can probably blame Markiplier. He already did it before with FNAF.
No.9556
Here's a real unpopular opinion:
I don't hate mpreg and sometimes I like it depending on the context. ABO context sucks because it's retarded, why even have human females in that universe? But the old school method of these magical ass babies or fade to black is fine.
No.9557
I love that stupid “b-but we’re both boys” shit so much, and I don’t care that it’s cringe. I think it’s lame when people say they’re glad BL has moved on from it. NO. We should NEVER move away from it. You can pry my “I’m totally straight (said while being actively fucked in the ass by another man)” yaoi from my cold, dead hands.
I don’t know if this belongs here or in “Shit You Like,” but I’m putting it here because I’ve seen a LOT of discussions online where people name this as the worst BL trope, as well as people asking for recommendations that don’t employ this trope. When people recommend a series with the lack of this as a selling point, I stay far away from it.
No.9558
>>9557I agree with you, nona (and I love that you specified that the uke is the one doing it…). Do you prefer it in the context of 'being in the closet and insisting on being ttly straight' or 'usually goes for girls, but not this time'?
No.9559
>>9557Kek I hate that trope and I'm glad BL has moved on from it. I get why it's appealing because taboos always have their own essence to them and I guess breaking straight men is a fetish for some but I'm honestly so tired of half of the story going into the characters struggling with their sexuality instead of building the relationship with shared moments without the constant nagging "b-but he's a man, I'm not into men!" thought interrupting it.
No.9560
>>9557Gasp! I'm old enough that almost every single yaoi had to include some flavor of this so I don't like it at all.
I want them to love it, I want them to crave it, I want them to think about it, I want them to desire it, I want them to fantasize about it, I want them to revel in it!
No.9561
>>9557I'm with you and it makes me sad it isn't as common anymore. Personally I love things like forbidden love and slowburn pining so that trope is what drew me into yaoi all those years ago.
No.9562
I just can't get into sports anime. Even in the rare instance when the art is cute and appealing, my eyes just glaze over the moment sports ball happens. Yes, this includes Free
No.9563
>>9562Same, I felt bad for my friend when she showed me Kuroko and was so excited but I was bored out of my skull though kek.
Closest I've got to enjoying a sports anime is SK8.
No.9565
>>9562Which ones have you watched nonna? Because not all of them are made equal, some are better than others.
No.9566
>>9562My confession is that sports animanga has made me more interested in sports than anything else ever has. I know more about basketball than ever after Kuroko and Slam Dunk. Sports are retarded but the sheer gayness and size of the male cast in most sports shit plus lack of female love interest is worth it. Maybe fc needs a sports animanga tier list? Idk if Captain Tsubasa will evet be worth it but I wanna the Prince of Tennis
the protagonist looks made for dick No.9568
>>9566>TeniPuri mention>that spoilerLmao anon, that killed me but you aren't wrong.
TeniPuri is my peak cbdct anime. Most of the dudes are handsome, beautiful, cute or at least have some moe traits that make them attractive and there's like a million ship combinations, even husbandos if you're also into that. I mostly recommend the first anime season+ovas and reading the manga+sequel (even if this last one introduces a ton of more guys, some of them kinda ugly imo) but the series is super fun. I watched it when I was 14 and after rewatching/rereading it all this year, 15 years later, I believe it still holds up. There's a reason it's one of the biggest spokon franchises still alive and why it got so much merch, adaptations, fanart, djs, even an otome game.
The only thing I could see people having a problem is the fact that all of the guys are in middle school but since they look and sound like adults it's not as bad.
The moe, lots of different interactions and rivalries/friendships between the characters, the music is nice (so many character/pair songs, first op is fucking good imo), even the anime filler is good. There's so much I love about TeniPuri… Just make sure to stay away from all anime adaptations after the 1st season, but especially the World Cup one lol. Fucking disrepect.
Another thing, Ryoma (the MC) is kind of a Gary Stu so if you don't like that kind of protagonists, your enjoyment may not be much. I love him to death, I think he's pretty cute and charismatic and he's my favorite male character of all time (his seiyuu is also my favorite female seiyuu) but I understand he's not for everyone, though there's other boys that are also super moe in other ways.
Now after writing all this, I'm left with the urge of rewatching it again haha.
No.9569
>>9562Every single time I try watching a sports anime my brain just tunes out. Sports are so boring to me and it pains me how they always have the biggest fujo fandoms yet I can't just get into the sports aspect at all.
No.9571
>>9569>my brain just tunes outThis is the moment where you think of smut between your favorites.
No.9572
>>9571Kek I did this while watching Dark Elf Healer.
Spent half of the show thinking about the mc getting molested by monster plants haha…
…dwelling on it now, my standards might be a little low.
No.9573
>>9572Just looked it up. The MC as in Karla? Sounds like the antithesis of anything I would ever watch or enjoy. Ew.
No.9574
>>9573She clealy means Alvin nonna, I dont know why you would asdume otherwise given she included a picture of him what the fuck.
No.9575
>>9574Oh whoopsies my bad kekekek
No.9576
>>9573The knight anon, look at the picture. Its low standards because you literally can't see his face or body lmao.
No.9577
>>9558>Do you prefer it in the context of 'being in the closet and insisting on being ttly straight' or 'usually goes for girls, but not this time'?That's a hard question to answer because I do like both. For me, the main thing is that the character is deeply in denial about his feelings and feels some form of shame or discomfort with it? I've seen it done well both ways, and as long as that emotional conflict exists, I'm not terribly picky about the exact situation. I've even seen some where the character is entirely straight, but is forced to do gay shit due to circumstance, ends up liking it, and feels really weird about that fact. That's even within my area of interest if handled correctly. I don't know if that makes any sense, and I'm sorry if I didn't exactly answer your question!
No.9596
>>9539The only reason why Adachi didn't do all of this is because he accidentally killed his victim before he could have done all of this. If he didn't kill the journalist in her hotel room and get away with it everything would have been even more morbid in the game but in a different way. I can't make any comparison with Mouthwashing and its characters though.
>There's something more endearingly pathetic about AdachiUnironically I think it's only because he's so obviously based on Matsuda from Death Note and Matsuda is cute. Adachi's incel manifesto from his boss fight was a bit too on the nose and with how vaguely implied the reason why he was sent to a shit hole like Inaba I can't find him too endearing though.
No.9603
Adachi sucks and the women who husbando him need more self-esteem
No.9604
>>9562Me too, and god I tried. The only one I really liked was kuroko no basket and it's just because of Murasakibara, the most beautiful guy I've ever seen in anime.
No.9605
>>9604Does sk8 count as sports anime…?
I find sports so boring IRL Eyeshield 21 is the only one I really like that doesn't have a secondary genre, wish I could get into some Slam Dunk and Haikyuu fans eat for days.
No.9606
I don't care about IRL sports but I find sports anime engaging as long as it gets wacky with the sport like Kuroko and Blue lock. I've tried watching more down to earth sports anime but I couldn't get into it.
No.9609
I like 2.5D productions, including musicals, and I like when the actors fuck around backstage and interact on friendly terms together out of character too. When I first got truly deep into fujodom people passed around .avi musical downloads like it was the natural extension of the content we used as shipping fuel. You didn't think about it as 3D and you didn't ask what the actors were really like in their personal lives, but you still thought it was cute when they cried in the final curtain call or got a cake slammed in their face.
Now it's hard to find English speaking fujos who even try them. I feel like sometimes it's a landmine to bring up stage performances of any kind, because someone will get offended by the presence of real people or music. I'm glad that fc has the space for people to share these in designated threads, since it's places where everyone is packed in together where I've experienced people make accusations like "people who watch musicals are 3DPD obsessed yume no better than kpop shitters" and "stage shows are nothing but OOC garbage that infest fandoms." People will tell you the songs are low IQ trash with no cultural value, like it's normal to judge weeb media by whether it's comparable to high art from a recognized canon. Male otaku are out there with their silly horsie songs and I just want to giggle at a man pulling a funny face one minute and singing gravely about war the next.
Wishful thinking is that people who don't like what you like are just very vocal and stick out, but without the old LJ comms it's like stages just aren't visible and don't exist for most people. We've got more streaming site options and the ease of google drives but it's a total crapshoot whether you find newer stages. Fandoms just aren't as into them as they used to be.
No.9612
>>9610>I do remember it being bigger than it is now but never gave much thought to why it just disappeared from general fandom consciousness. Do you think it's symptomatic of fandom moving too fast, or something else? Last I heard, 2.5D musical fans get really anal about piracy and copyright so they will hunt down illegal reuploads. Though that's just secondhand information someone told me once so I dunno how accurate it is.
No.9613
>>9609My problem is that I am not a fan of their acting. Maybe I just need to watch a really good one so that I can get into it enough that I won't mind.
>>9610 at least the costumes are looking really good.
No.9615
I should be allowed to talk shit about your ship without giving a fuck about your feelings whenever you decide to namesearch ship related shit.
I'm tired of having to play along nicely or never expressing any opinion on disliking something because "that's toxic and bad :("
No.9616
>>9615It's not toxic and bad, just invites drama to you and the fandom. I dislike the forced positivity as well but at the same time I think shipping is something you do in your own lane for fun, there is no reason to engage with the ships you dislike and attract interactions with their fans. Replace one letter and now you can rant as much as you.
I have some ships and shippers I absolutely despise, still I wouldn't want to do anything to attract their attention specifically because I hate them so much. Why take a chance of attracting the attention of people you wouldn't want to interact with?
No.9617
>>9615I think there is a difference between explaining why you dislike a ship and why you prefer AB to AC and just being a bitch for no reason it's not toxic positivity to not want to get flooded with a million posts about why your rarepair is problematic or bad when opening their tumblr tag. If you don't like something don't engage with it, it's juvenile.
No.9618
>>9616>>9617I don't want the shippers attention or to direct flame them / stalk them to constantly shit on them etc (like I've seen it happen in other fandoms) but simply character bashing / ship bashing in general if I'm just on my own space but without having to feel that need of "what if someone sees it and gets offended by it" which I hate.
I don't post on tumblr but obviously I wouldn't deliberately tag something with the shipname if it's ship hate. But on
twitter, there's always people searching for keywords which makes it annoying that if you refer to a ship in some manner, sooner or later somebody will look at it and bring the trouble to you themselves.
No.9619
>>9618That's mostly on Twitter being a shit platform. For example, it's annoying when you search for something specific and the result is flooded by posts from someone who has the words you searched for in their name.
I don't use the (for you) tab because the algorithm is untrustworthy so when I'm looking for new people to follow I search the ship name. Jp artists very often mention the ship name but don't use a tag which is also why I got that habit.
If Twitter was a better platform we wouldn't need to censor ourselves but it's shit so better be careful for the sake of everyone who is also dealing with it.
No.9620
>>9617>it's not toxic positivity to not want to get flooded with a million posts about why your rarepair is problematic or badYeah but she is not going out of her way to inflame others, she is just venting, it is forced positivity to want everyone to never do or just do "helpful criticism".
Same for characters or even stories, if people want to vent about something they don't like they should be in the right to do so, even if it may be juvenile.
No.9621
>>9620Call me a weak bitch but when the only comment I get on my story is "Gross why did you write A/B?" It makes me feel like shit. If someone is venting on their own it's fine, if nonna is posting about it on twitter it's whatever. Getting reblogged with comments and tags about how you're a terrible person just makes me want to disengage.
We're talking about different platforms, I don't use Twitter my post wasn't about that I just have been on the receiving end of hate and personal attacks a few too many times.
No.9622
>>9621Yeah people who do that shit are awful. If you wanna be a hater you can be a hater privately or where the OP can't see it but commenting directly on a fic about that sucks.
No.9624
>>9615Just tag your ship-bashing properly and it's fine imo. Also there's a difference between shitting on a ship and shitting on the people who ship the ship themselves. Or going out of your way to comment on other people's works obvs. Venting can be fun but sometimes it's better to focus on what you like vs what you don't, but we also shouldn't have to walk on eggshells for everyone in our own spaces.
No.9650
I'm gonna say it: I don't feel comfortable sharing a space with people who's ideologies I disagree with. I can keep it to myself but there's always the lingering bugbear of accidently stating my peace and and getting panned for it. There's so much I can stomach before my body hair wants to die.
No.9651
>>9650For me I can tolerate being around them, but I don't really consider them friends like I do with my fujo friends who align with me politically.
No.9652
>>9651I just learned a guy who sometimes ask for Comms from me loves to suck elon's cock. We're still chill, but as somebody with left leaning views, I don't trust a man who destroyed a social media platform with the keys to society.
No.9718
I know people are going to deny it but I feel like we have much less media that wants to fujo pander anymore. Fujos will cook yaoi anywhere, I'm not denying that. But in terms of big series and big ships getting a lot of traction there doesn't seem to be as many options compared to all the hetero romances and even yuri in the mainstream when it comes to anime and gaming.
There's not a lot of newer shounen with fujobait to replace the old guard. We used to have a lot of ps2 era and handheld console era rpgs with popular homo ships but there's less in comparison. Most of it seems to be taken over by gacha and with how that industry is moving, you won't see guys in anything but otome and those people do not want to see any fujo bait at all.
Sports anime isn't as huge anymore. The biggest anime fandoms on ao3 as of now are BNHA (older series, complete), BSD (older series, ongoing), Naruto (older series) and Haikyuu (older series, complete). Which is good for them, these series had a long time to build up the fanbase. But I can't think of any big anime that take their place in the fujo ecosystem. In terms of video games we have no new Josh/Neku or Soriku or Narumitsu. You know it's bad when the biggest game fandom for fujos is Hoyoverse, a company that will never give male characters the same importance and screentime because incels will freak out, and where the content is just the guys talking in one event. We're in the fujo Dark Ages in terms of upcoming media and companies wanting to pander to us.
No.9720
>>9718To be honest, considering the clusterfuck autismo fandoms in recent shounen series like JJK/MHA or the Hoyoverse, I can't help but wonder if big main fandoms are a mistake. Having a big fandom isn't a sign of quality anymore, its a red flag. Might be that as time passes and the big fandoms get more and more aggravating, some people are starting to stay away from shounen and games like hoyoverse and centering on under the radar series that won't grab as much attention past a small base while others won't check out series unless it ready has a large fandom attached to it because they're more attached to the community as a social gathering than they are to the actual fandom.
No.9721
>>9720I think the reason big fandoms have become worse is because of the platforms everyone is on. Twitter functions on ragebait and so everyone wants to one up each other with hot takes and stanning than actually creating anything. Smaller fandoms don't even get a chance because writers and artists don't want to produce for anything that will get them less eyes on their work and less chances of commissions.
No.9722
Idk how much of a hot take this is but it's hard for me to understand Fate fujos or Hoyoverse fujos. Especially Hoyoverse ones. With Genshin there's countless cute girl characters who are all designed the same way with cleavage and clothing cut-out designs and short skirts and head accessories and button designs. And then every guy is completely clothed with pants and a scarf or a suit or something. All of the characters look the same to me. From what I can understand too there's little lore and all characters have easily digestible personalities.
No hate either because I can get why you would want to get invested in a very popular game and have a mountain of fanart and fic at all times with a giant community. All the characters just look so samey to me personally and there's next to no pandering from what I can understand.
>>9718It's weird because there's so much good BL coming out all times through manga, novels, whatever, but it doesn't feel like we have anything to replace Naruto or BNHA or Haikyuu when it comes to fujobait.
>>9720>>9721I've had the best luck with fandoms centered around media that naturally filters out children, normies, people unfamiliar with fandom, and antis. Media that
>leans older>isn't trendy or an aesthetic on social media, especially TikTok>has open pandering or problematic elements>has actual gameplay required>higher barrier of entry to become a fanCompare gacha game and mobile game fandoms with actual console or PC game fandoms. I know that kids will always read game wikis, but a lot are too lazy to even do that. Anything that filters people who need constant dopamine.
No.9724
>>9718Yeah I've been feeling this too. I do think that Blue lock is a decently big newer fujo franchise but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.
>>9722>Idk how much of a hot take this is but it's hard for me to understand Fate fujos or Hoyoverse fujosI'm not that actively into Fate anymore but like I mentioned in the Fate grand order thread I do think it has diverse male character designs so you're probably going to run into at least some guys that do it for you that have some sort of interaction due to the gacha format. I get your feelings though cause the franchise is very waifu-focused and I quit the mobile game cause I was tired of the cowtits waifus and bikini lolis.
No.9727
>>9722Fate fujoism is literally just historical fujoism just with anime designs attached to them. If you already shipped something like Gilgamesh/Enkidu from the original Epic, or stuff like Salieri/Mozart, Sherlock/Moriarty, etc etc it's really not all that different. Then you have Master/Servant relationships like
>>9725 which work well.
Also, I don't understand why it should be a demerit if male characters are more clothed than females or viceversa or whatever? I don't immediately like a male character for being a guy wearing a thong and armor.
Hoyo fujos though, I'll give you that it's exactly what's wrong with "fujobait" these days because there is no actual BAIT. The "bait" is quite literally "these two MEN are standing there, and maybe they hate each other or like each other, who knows" and fujos are the ones doing the job, not the company to ensure fujos keep eating the bait.
But then again, let's look at the examples such as
>>9718 said. BNHA, BSD, Naruto and Haikyuu.
Naruto and BNHA by factor of being a shonen, unintentionally pander to fujos because all the women are written terribly and the male ""friendships"" are too strong they feel gay as fuck. They may intentionally trap you by giving you that bait through merch or vague dialogues, but you know that it's NEVER going to be a thing and you're retarded for thinking so.
Didn't BSD shoot itself in the foot recently with the author pulling a Durarara on the most popular ship?
Also
> In terms of video games we have no new Josh/Neku or Soriku or Narumitsusis your shuake???? the ship that refuses to die????
No.9728
>>9722>Genis and MithosI completely forgot how cute they were together!
My big Symphonia ship was always
Kratos x Lloyd but luckily most Tales games fit right into your normie-children-anti filter by the length and age alone
I think in terms of JRPGs they are very newbie-friendly, but who has time for that nowadays when you can download gacha slop on your phone for free?
No.9730
>>9722>little lore and all characters have easily digestible personalities. Fate/HYV fandoms are just the gachashit equivalent to Homestuck (huge but shallow cast ripe for headcanons, "deep" but succinct lore, drip-fed story).
In general fanworks that consider the lore tend to be less popular and only visible to people who go digging for them, so as an onlooker all you will see through a popular fandom's algorithm invasion is the AU/coomer/meme/shallow shit that gets the engagement.
I can't quite pinpoint how/when/why thoughtful fanworks became second banana to popular tropes (I am certain platform/algo issues like
>>9721 says is a factor), but it's definitely something that has happened in the last decade. These days a "BNF" is more likely to be writing AU slop or drawing objectively high quality but narratively uninteresting Patreon NSFW than anything that meaningfully draws from the source material (which they supposedly love?).
Popular older fandoms seem to be protected from modern conventions like this–for example it is unlikely you will see paint-by-numbers AU omegaverse fics dominate the top 50 kudos'd fic of any Star Trek or Final Fantasy VII ship, even if your search is limited to post-2020.
>>9718>in terms of big series and big ships getting a lot of traction there doesn't seem to be as many options compared to all the hetero romances and even yuri in the mainstream when it comes to anime and gamingThis is true and my only comfort is that the "classics" I'm into continue to get new and high quality fics. As the slopification of media continues I can only hope that fujos consider their nutrition-packed backlogs over trying to find crumbs of bait underneath a table they haven't been welcome at in years.
>>9728>Kratos x LloydCompletely insane how popular this was when you consider modern fandom sensibilities can't handle "family coded" incest. The relative popularity of Laguna x Squall FF8 comes to mind too.
No.9731
>>9726>>9725hm okay I think I understand Fate fujos a little better just by these pictures alone
>>9727>male characters are more clothed than females or viceversa or whatever?I don't want them to necessarily wear a thong, but the male Genshin characters all have similar silhouettes with random details. Not having too lewd of male characters for the Chinese incel fanbase limits designs. I've seen delusional Hoyo fans say dumb shit like how all of the waifus are feminist or for the girlies or it's better for the guys to be completed covered up, etc
To sperg a little more I like the basic core concept of Arataki Itto (white-haired oni + red horns / face), Scaramouche (shorts + hat + dark indigo hair), and Kaeya (dark skin + ponytail + eyepatch). Childe's hair color and asymmetrical clothing bother me a lot and I don't know why.
>>9728>I think in terms of JRPGs they are very newbie-friendly, but who has time for that nowadays when you can download gacha slop on your phone for free?Agree, they are so comfy for sure! Love Tales games, disappointed by Arise kek
No.9733
>>9718>In terms of video games we have no new Josh/Neku or Soriku or Narumitsu. There's a canon gay pairing in FF16 and one of the guys in it is very popular but it's not nearly as popular as any of the pairings you listed. Maybe you're right about fujobait in video games. But I don't keep up with new releases anymore so I'm a bit clueless.
No.9741
>>9722>Fate fujos I know a lot of anons already replied, but I just thought I'd bring this up. A lot of Fate fujos (including me) started out as fans of the visual novel or anime. You get into the VN or anime because you hear the plot is good, and the next thing you know, you're looking up doujins of whatever two male characters happened to have a weird amount of sexual tension in your eyes. Personally, I have a really strong interest in history and VNs, so I didn't get into the series for the boys specifically. It was just a happy coincidence that there's a decent amount of bait between two of my favorite characters. I don't think it's fair to say the series doesn't have any lore when people make autistic watch order flowcharts and get into fights about whether suggesting people start with Fate/Zero is a horrible decision because you'll accidentally spoil a couple of twists from Fate/Stay Night. The VN alone is like 80 hours long, plus there's a ton of spin-off material, so there's a lot of lore.
I actually have a love-hate relationship with FGO because it attracts people who completely ignore canon characterization and lore (male fans are the worst about it. I've seen them worry that love interests from the original VN would have a canonical attraction to Shirou, the protagonist of Fate/Stay Night, instead of the generic protagonist of the gacha when Shirou was added to the game. This is complicated by how these characters operate in FGO, but that's probably the easiest way to explain it. There are also a lot of fandom characterizations that completely ignore canon because they've never engaged with anything outside of FGO. I could complain about FGO more, but I don't want to get into annoying territory). I understand it is a scrote-oriented franchise, so I'm not stupid enough to defend it, but I thought that might help explain some of the fandom. I won't pretend the series isn't built on waifu fanservice (it did start out as an eroge), but I'd argue the girls' designs were much more reasonable and less obnoxious in FSN than FGO. I do agree that I don't understand how people get into the series from FGO alone, as the gameplay is archaic, and we didn't even have a pity system in the gacha for the longest time.
No.9743
>>9742>it's still one of the only Gacha games I've been able to get into and it still has some stuff going for itOh, absolutely! There's a reason I said it was a love-hate relationship kek. I know I spent a lot of time complaining about FGO in my post, but I've been playing the gacha for years because the story is absolutely engaging. It's the only gacha game I've never deleted from my phone. I more meant that it's hard to understand why someone would play FGO because the gacha is outdated, and I can't understand why someone would choose it over some of the more "polished" gacha games out there if they didn't have a preexisting attachment to the series. Of course, people do, so there must be some reason.
> I actually hope someday it's reworked into a "real" vn and demobilized after it shuts down I also hope it becomes a "real" VN because it basically already is one. I don't know the exact word count offhand, but it's truly gotten to an insane length. Camelot was actually my favorite chapter, with Atlantis as a close second. It'd be sad not to have an offline version when it ends.
Not to derail the thread, but it's insane VNDB doesn't count it as a VN, but counts Fate/Extella as one. No.9744
>>9733>FF16The only good ship is the incest ship
No.9745
>>9727>it's exactly what's wrong with "fujobait" these days because there is no actual BAIT. The "bait" is quite literally "these two MEN are standing there, and maybe they hate each other or like each other, who knows" and fujos are the ones doing the job, not the company to ensure fujos keep eating the bait.This has reminded me of something I've seen on lc, the opinion that its better when the source material is "mediocre/not good" because it let's people feel like they can write it better through fanfiction.
Tbh personally, I feel like if you're not genuinely a fan of the work then what youre writing isnt really FANfiction. It all feels wrong to me, ig.
No.9746
>>9745IMO you can have good characters and potential in material that is otherwise "bad" though I think you don't truly hate the work in those cases since there is something that draws you to it. What really makes a fandom is the toybox scenario where they give you an open ended enough world and setting to mess with, an open and shut well written story doesn't get the juices flowing in a way something that's less polished but has gaps of time, a large ensemble cast, or even "plot holes" does.
Realistically if you're investing hours into writing something even if you claim to hate it there must be something compelling driving you to.
No.9747
>>9746Isn't it usually character design and community? It connects to the gacha stuff too, ig in that its not made with the thought of enjoying the dynamics of the source material.
No.9748
>>9747To be honest, I've never played any of Hoyo's works, so I have no idea what their appeal is. The character designs seem boring, so I assume those ones just ride on accessibility, though maybe I'm missing some bestselling writing, haha. Personally, I'm not motivated by community, but I do think it's good "propaganda" for a franchise. So while I don't think it's the main reason people engage, it might get people who otherwise wouldn't have checked out a series to look into it and enjoy something.
I'm just talking in general; an anime or game might have amazing writing, but if there isn't an easy "in" that makes you want to write, it might not grip you in that way. Meanwhile, if you look at something like Danganronpa or Naruto, there are large casts and an interesting setting, so even if the game or show doesn't have the best writing itself, you want more of the world and characters.
The example picture I used is one that always springs to mind for me as a "shit show I love/hate." Medaka Box has some really cool ideas and fun characters but falls prey to the fact that it is aggressively shonenshit and falls flat on its ass. And yet, I feel compelled to someday write something for it because I think its "magic" system is interesting.
No.9749
>>9736Agreed. I found literally every noncanon Clive ship with a male more interesting than the actual canon gay couple.
No.9750
>>9736Their backstory is interesting but is only revealed in a guidebook so I like the pairing, but it's more because I like Dion a lot in general.
>>9744True. Unfortunately the more time passed the more artists kept drawing Joshua as a cuntboy.
No.9753
>>9744I don't like Clive much at all. And while I ~love~ the traditional leader and his devoted right-hand man coupling…
I have to say I am still a Dion/Joshua truther.
>>9750Dion was the best character and I am trying to manifest a DLC about him.
No.9754
>>9741ARYT, I was talking about Hoyo fujos with the lore stuff, probably should have made that more clear. I wouldn't call myself a Fate fan but I've seen the original 2006 Stay/Night anime and played the VN. Some of the boys are cute (Gilgamesh
he should bottom) but the series seemed very male-pandering especially with FGO which is why I said I didn't really understand Fate fujos. I'm more interested now in the series if it gives you content and interactions to work with. No hate either, most weebshit I keep up with is aimed at males myself. I should probably watch Fate Zero (and UBW) at some point. Thanks for your reply, I understand it better now.
>>9746>>9748The toybox element is a good point with fandom and fic and why series like Naruto get so many stories along with canon content for fujos. I want to see the next really big shonenslop series to be set in an interesting world (ideally not low fantasy Tokyo) with pretty boys. What are some series that had very high potential and a good base for fic that turned out to be mediocre? This discussion interests me.
No.9755
>>9718i would disagree but then i remember this came out 12 years ago and we haven't gotten anything comparable ever since.
a cast of 15+ cute guys with ripped bodies constantly wet and on display all over each other, with relationships tip-toeing on romance. only 2 of them showed interest in a girl and it was just comedic relief anyways.
the fact there hasn't been a single anime that has done the same thing to this degree in over a decade is very telling. this industry is so anti-fujo and generally anti-women not even easy money motivates them to feed us properly…
No.9757
>>9755We had Yuri on Ice after Free but Mappa fucked up so bad it became a dead franchise soon after and even Junichi Suwabe seemed lowkey pissed off on twitter when Mappa finally confirmed we'll never get the movie. And the reason why they neglected Yuri on Ice on purpose is because they never had faith in the series to begin with and didn't negociate the way they should have with other companies involved in the project so they barely saw any profits from the anime and merchandises. Kyoani is more likely to adapt niche manga and novels for otaku, I assume that's why they were a lot more invested in Free. I'm still mad at Mappa to this day, I think I'll keep seething in my 80s.
No.9759
>>9757mappa's treatment of yuri on ice was really disgusting. such a good and beloved series fading out like this when tons of trashy series get all kinds of sequels and spin-offs is very unfair.
i agree that yuri on ice had some similarities with free, however it wasn't nearly as fanservice-y. free's entire staple was to have tons and tons of bishies half-naked on screen and fujobaiting in various combinations of ships for the entire duration of the episode. it was much more unabashed and titillating than yuri on ice, which was "just" a truly sports anime with a canon gay couple.
No.9760
>>9755Boueibu Season 4 is airing right now, it might not have as much nudity as Free but it definitely gets up there with the fanservice. Current one has MC transforming in a naked apron.
Each season has had some pretty blatant shipbait and there has also been pretty blatant canon gay. While at the same time they did do an otome game spinoff…? It's kind of bizarre considering the show is all BL fanservice. The actual anime is like those moe shows that never show a male except flipped.
No.9761
>>9759I mostly compared Free and Yuri on Ice because of how well received they were by their target audience and how male otaku seethed when they were airing. And Free season 1 and Yuri on Ice are around the same length and they're original works (sort of for Free) as well. It's a better comparison than WSJ anime adaptations of sports manga that aren't made specifically for fujoshi but have strong fujoshi fanbases because I know back then on tumblr everyone kept comparing Free to series like Haikyuu or Prince of Tennis.
>>9760>The actual anime is like those moe shows that never show a male except flipped.I only watched the first season but I just remembered how the "antagonist" goal made absolutely no sense because there aren't any female characters whatsoever in the season, it was the funniest shit ever. I need to rewatch it soon.
No.9764
>>9760oh i've heard about boueibu, i've always been curious about it since i like magical girls, but i get the feeling it's a very low quality production (and tbh i think the guys are ugly lol). what do you think about it nona?
>>9761yeah i get it nona, and i agreed with you that you can make a comparison between yoi and free. i remember the male otakus meltdown over both, it was so silly.
its just that in the op i was talking about an anime that oversexualizes a large cast of bishies and teases lots of ships between them as its main selling point, rather than other types of similarities between the two.
No.9765
>>9761>I only watched the first season but I just remembered how the "antagonist" goal made absolutely no sense because there aren't any female characters whatsoever in the seasonDo you mean the episode with the monster that was turning all the boys gay and the student council's plan was to stop humans from reproducing? Kek
>>9764>what do you think about it nona?I loved season 1 and 2, was disappointed by season 3, and am currently being disappointed by season 4. The budget has definitely never been great but the novelty of magical boys is enough to keep me watching. The only problem with the later seasons is that they keep repeating the formula without doing enough to change it up, plus focusing too much on the MOTW aspect. I noticed when rewatching the first season that a lot less time was spent on the monsters and more time was spent on the boys, but now it's the opposite.
They've also really dropped the ball on the character designs recently. We peaked in S2.
No.9766
>>9762What I miss the most isn't even the fujopandering in anime like hetalia because I honestly just stick to older fandoms, but the combination of fun premise with potential for nerds to immerse themselves (geopolitics/history/geography/militarism) + cute bishies.
Not my intention to derail the thread, but It's seems that most anime/manga made for the first group I mentioned (fun premise for nerds) are simply made for men.
No.9767
>>9733The canon gay is with a very boring side characters and it has little influence on the story. Not nearly as fun to ship as Sefikura or Noctis with any of the guys.
>>9741FGO has always felt like a less fujo friendly franchise despite me knowing it does get yaoi. The English side of the fandom is mostly dude based considering its an wrote and there's a lot of self insert het yume content to wade through. The yaoi ships don't seem to get any readable fanfics in comparison to other fandoms.
No.9768
>>9767>yaoi ships don't seem to get any readable fanfics in comparison to other fandomsThis is the metric by which I judge whether or not fandoms are "for" fujos. I understand that it's a personal and biased opinion, but in my experience the % of M/M fanfic is directly proportionate to how comfortable the EN fandom is. It has been said here and in other threads how fujos are drawn to play with toys in the sandbox and fanfic is the most accurate measurement of this quality (modern fanart is muddled by financial gain).
No.9769
>>9768I disagree tbh, by that metric Genshin is be super fujo.
No.9771
>>9770>NO english fanfics but the fandom is entirely japanese with tons of fanartContains a high chemistry ship but has a low sandbox score (Bravern also falls into this category). I enjoy them but they are ephemeral and unlikely to reach "lifelong OTP I still think about years later" status. To use a food analogy: for me fanfics are complex carbs and fanart is sugar.
>>9769Gachashit's inability to ever have canon m/f ships is one of the few objectively nice things about them and I view them as fujo friendly because of this.
No.9772
>>9771Samefag but an example of the opposite (high sandbox/low chemistry ship) would be shit like Kylux from Star Wars. "Migratory Slash Fandom" is like a false positive on the fujometer haha
No.9773
>>9722I get it but I also get the urge to want to be into popular things only so I can have fanfics that I can actually read. I don't think the canon status of ships matters that much, and people are more attracted to the ability to play around in a world than really needing canon.
>>9727Shuake was done so dirty by Atlus with them ignoring them and doing some "up to your interpretation" which only pleased the incel guys who hated Akechi. Persona is one of the franchises where I feel the least welcome as a female players and I know Shuake has shooters defending this ambiguous nonsense but I say as fujos we demand better since its only the dudebros who get what they want, not us.
>>9730I feel like Hoyoverse also now dripfeeding ships to people based on tropes instead of people shipping on their own is also why it all feels like slop. People rush to ship the new yaoi because a leak said it would be baited, that's how sad it is. While I remember early Genshin fandom where people shipped more for fun and cooked their own food based on voicelines and wanting to go "behind the scenes", which is good fuel for shipping, to now only being about shipping whatever is canon and then hating on ships that aren't "canon".
No.9778
>also get the urge to want to be into popular things only so I can have fanfics that I can actually read. I don't think the canon status of ships matters that much
In the fandom I'm in (few fujos fandom) people do tend to just, ship the canon ship because it's validating, like they can self insert into the girl so most fanfics are the same rehashed y/a romance novel like.
Everytime there are no fujos in a fandom the "popular" ship always ends being the canon or the closest to canon basically.
I don't really care about popularity thou, I've seen the popular ship in my fandom for example and most of its content is samey tumblr anime looking fanarts that feel out of character. Meanwhile, my ship might not have much content, but the few fanarts it does have are honestly some of the best I’ve seen in the fandom. Quality over quantity, basically.
No.9782
Fujos really need to start seriously gatekeeping, because the concept of yaoi and fujoshi is devolving into an internet meme for many people and lots of people who speak on the topic only know about it through viral memes to the point I'm convinced most braindead fujoshi and yaoi related discourse would be gone overnight if people had actual standards for who gets to speak on these things. Start quizzing people on BL anime, ask them who their favorite BL mangaka is and what they think of the current state of BL in the industry and how they think danmei or BL manwha compares to standard Japanese BL manga and if they can't answer any of your questions and only know yaoi because of yaoi paddles or yaoi hands or fandom ship discourse or whatever, they're a poser and don't get an opinion.
Same for people that hate yaoi. If they complain about misogyny/homophobia in BL but their only experience with misogynistic/homophobic fujoshi is through non-canon shipping in non-BL media (even worse if it's FOTM fandoms like Arcane), they also don't get an opinion at all. The fact that nerdy spaces stopped being obnoxious and autistic about shit like this is the reason most anti-fujo takes are even entertained, no matter how false or nonsensical they may be. You have to read/watch/play actual honest to god BL if you want to shit on it, you need to be able to point to specific examples of your grievances that aren't just the same Okane ga Nai cover art over and over again.
I think the reason a lot of fujos aren't really open to the idea of gatekeeping is because it's something that's associated with annoying and stupid misogynistic male nerds, but I feel like it's about time we develop some standards because discourse has only gotten worse over time and most people who feel the need to share their hot takes couldn't name a non-turbo mainstream BL title to save their lives.
No.9783
>>9782I honestly agree but I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of fujos exclusively read doujin material/fanfics. Would you consider them to be part of the general fujo osmosis as long as they name their favorite doujin artists or would you consider them to be in a different category?
No.9784
>>9783ayrt, you're right and doujinshi/fanfic culture is very much integral to fujoshi culture itself, but I feel like my point would still be the same. Do you know the basics of doujin or slash history, do you know a little bit about the conventions where your favourite doujin artists sell their works, can you tell me why you hate specific common tropes like omegaverse without sounding like a faux academic gendie sperging about transmisogyny or whatever the fuck… My main point is that I want both fandom and non-fandom autists, both fans and haters alike, to at least know something about what they constantly sperg about that goes beyond twitter discourse. Like, could any of the people constantly bitching about AO3 and how much M/M content it has actually explain to me why they don't like those fics for any reason that isn't tribalism coated in fake feminist platitudes? I doubt it. I doubt they've even read any of those fics in the first place, honestly. Which is exactly my problem with modern fandom. Fandom discourse a constant game of telephone that becomes so far removed from the original material that at this point we could consider twitter discourse baiters their own not so little fandom.
No.9785
>>9784>can you tell me why you hate specific common tropes like omegaverseBecause it's gross. Simple as.
You start sounding like
>a faux academic yourself. What's next? Demanding essays to prove your 'tru&honest fan' worth?
No.9786
>>9784>I love doujinshi>Oh yeah? Name three conventions that aren't ComiketThat's a funny thought but that would be a block from me.
No.9787
>>9782>Start quizzing people on BL anime, ask them who their favorite BL mangaka is and what they think of the current state of BL in the industry and how they think danmei or BL manwha compares to standard Japanese BL mangaI've been a fujo for at least 20 years and I've never read BL manga or watched BL anime.
I'm pretty sure a lot of fujos don't consume pure BL either and are predominantly shippers. Am I a fake fujo for being purely a shipper, and not an Avid Consumer of Queer Media (tm)?
No.9788
>>9786I've read doujins (and zines) for probably a decade at this point and couldn't tell you a lot about cons because I'm an American who lives in the middle of nowhere…
No.9790
>>9782Honestly, I agree. I don't think its that hard to read bl manga if you consider yourself a fujo.
Not ever reading bl manga and not watching bl anime, not being able to remark on stuff happening in the source material, can *only* talk about fanfic?
Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't really think that you're a fujo the same way I don't think somebody who has never watched anime or read manga is a weeb because they read their kid's fanfic.
At least, there should be seperate categories. I'm tired of trying to start conversations with other fujo only to get "I don't read bl manga, they're kinda shit lol but have you seen this mafia au fanfic for Arcane?" and "anime is full of sexist tropes so I don't watch any, theres no reason to think about whats there, I just spend my time on wattpad".
Maybe have it be a "fanficer" or something.
No.9791
>>9790By that logic western fandom fujos aren't fujos unless they also watch canon gay TV shows or read gay literature.
No.9793
>>9791Why not read some books, tbh I've been wanting to get into reading more myself.
No.9794
>>9790people are fujos for different reasons, a ship from an anime or jrpg where romance is not the focus of the story is more appealing to some rather than reading about two people falling in love. it doesn't make them less of a fujo.
No.9795
>>9793I have tried but the gay books I've seen recommended have all been mediocre genre fiction imo.
>lmao but you still watch anime/read mangaIt's not that what I consume is superior, it's just what I happen to enjoy.
No.9796
>>9794>I have triedThen that's fine. Its not like something like Song of Achilles calls for that much commitment, its a single novel.
>>9794Thats when
>not being able to remark on stuff happening in the source materialIts one thing to like reading bait, its another when somebody doesn't have interest in the bait or story past tropes they can use for fanfic. Past experience, they're always very disrespectful too, calling the authors trash and garbage and making fun of the more genuine fans for taking their dolls too seriously.
No.9798
>>9787I've roughly been a fujo the same amount of time and also just don't feel the same way about original BL manga and anime. There was a period in highschool where I was reading everything scanlated regardless of quality and there are BL mangaka I really enjoy like Nakamura Asumiko, but I have no idea what's popular anymore on that front since all I read these days are fanfics. It's kind of hard to articulate why I like derivative romance but not original works. I think part of it is the works that got me into BL are things like Descendants of Darkness, Petshop of Horrors, and Clamp works. I've always preferred shonen ai with the underlying pining to series with romance as the main focus and I think fanfics are an extension of that it's just the mushy bits are by someone else not the main auhor.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's how I feel. Ignoring that though I think it's kind of goofy to say someone who's diet is 100% fanworks is somehow lesser than someone who engages with only original stuff. They're different but I wouldn't call one worse than the other.
No.9799
>>9795>mediocre genre fiction imoSame. With "romance" media in general (including BL/danmei) I feel like I have to trade "genuine interest" for "explicitly canon relationship". Outside of the sainted Yamane Ayano's Finder series I tend to not to really chew on BL after I put it down. Just once I would love for something I am already into to end with what I am already shipping being canon, you know?
I definitely think there should be some gatekeeping for fandom at large but "no true scotsfujo" tests would just divide us.
>>9798>fanfics are an extension of that it's just the mushy bits are by someone else not the main auhorIt's like this for me too. Fanfics are the free DLC to the source material. Your ending was bugged (locked into canon het)? There's a patch up on Ao3.
No.9805
>>9782>If they complain about misogyny/homophobia in BLAlso what they mean by misogyny in BL is "I don't have a female character i can see myself in i am literally dying right now reee"
That's what they mean.
Misogyny has to be one of to be most misused words to this day, and ironically it was used against other women the most.
No.9806
>>9785>Demanding essays to prove your 'tru&honest fan' worth?nta but i think anon was trying to make a difference between a "casual" fan and someone who actually, has real interest in whichever their hobby is.
I do think fujos can be both people who read bl and people shipping bl couples, shipping in the end is how bl came to be such a popular genre, it's like yumes and otome/shoujo, they are interchangeable imo.
Everyone starts somewhere obviously,i started with shipping a long time ago and from that i passed into junjou romantica and vns etc but the thing is, especially now people are literally just finding stuff on pinterest and tiktok, which they barely know anything about, and they pretend they are fans just because it's trending.
It's bothersome because like this you can't tell who is a real fan and is as dedicated like you are for example or who is just memeing together with their friends.
No.9808
Best characters in Ouran are Renge and the Lobelia girls, the guys+Haruhi are all kinda meh or annoying.
No.9809
>>9808I couldn't finish the anime because it's not really my type of humor and I'm sure the manga is better when it comes to how funny scenes are presented. The only characters I really liked were the twins. I found Haruhi boring as hell, she's just there to yell at the other characters when they say or do stupid shit. Worse than Shinpachi because at least in Gintama he also has his own retarded moments.
No.9818
Office romances are about as interesting as school romances, which is to say they're BORING AS FUCK.
No.9823
>>9818Office romance where one of the main guys doesn't get along with the super hot and popular guy from the sales department at first crack me up, you just know the mangaka don't know what sales departments in big companies do and it's all just a shortcut to say that the guy is so hot and charismatic he can sell one billion yen contracts to anyone at the snap of a finger. It's also funny when they invent random bullshit to make it look like the characters are totally busy and working overtime. I don't mind office romance by itself and like looking at fictional ikemen wearing well tailored suits but some scenes always make me do a double take.
No.9824
>>9818Tfw your ship don't even work in an office but a lot of their fic feels like people inserting standard office tropes and just making them do endless amounts of paperwork and business trips. Feels like a 'write what you know' sort of thing, it would at least be good if people remembered the actually interesting parts of their jobs sometimes. You also get all the fantasy elements of the universe totally stripped out sometimes to the extent that you could really just be reading a random office BL manga in fic form.
No.9827
>>9760>>9765Boueibu doesn't seem to have much of a fandom at all, I saw nothing about s3 and s4 most likely will get no traction in the West because it doesn't have a simulcast and fujos also don't like to watch these shows. I think joseimuke anime or even shounen that has an all guy cast for fujos like BSD doesn't become popular anymore (BSD is also an older series). I think Western fujos just changed, they don't want to write fanfics for joseimuke properties. They want to write where the most people are, and that's shounen. But now most of the popular shounen anime and series in the West aren't friendly for fujos or for fic writing if you want a cast with a lot of guys where you can write deviations from canon and there's rivalries and all the fun stuff.
>>9771It depends, gachashit like Hoyoslop is open for fic but the ships never have much to do with the main plot and the "company pushed" ships lack flavor because the company replies on fujos to do marketing and make free art while their real audience are incels. It's not worth being a literal second class citizen with Hoyoslop but again, Western fujos just don't like joseimuke. The only one that got popular was Twisted Wonderland and there you have to share with insane yumejoshis.
>>9782I don't think we should start saying it's wrong to ship noncanon in non BL media though. That's also fujoshi culture, that's how it got reclaimed in Japan. They were drawing noncanon ships from Gundam and Jojo and early sports anime. What fujos need to do is tell these people to shut up and that not writing someone's favorite het ship isn't misogyny and that they're not obligated to do it. If they really cared about more girls in fics, they would go after all the waifu moids. Ask them why they can't be bothered to write fics and why their only interest in waifus is ai generated porn and harem. But we know why these yumes and yuritroons don't go after men. They're too scared and too many fujos fold to them.
No.9832
>>9828VNs are dying out in the West because a lot of people in fandom now can't read. They literally can't read. They need cutscenes so they can post about "aura" and they only get their opinions about stories from streamers and tiktok. I'm not even exaggerating, many even admit they don't read and hate games that require reading.
No.9868
>>9832VN are dying everywhere, it's very well know there is a massive crisis in JP due to gacha eating most of the market.
No.9869
VN was never a good medium, broo I love reading novels but it has to be in bits where I have to click past the character changing expressions for 45 minutes, Norman Rockwell Freedom of Speech.
No.9870
>>9869>VN was never a good medium0/10 opinion