/ffs/ - Fujo Fandom Sperging

>>9736
Agreed. I found literally every noncanon Clive ship with a male more interesting than the actual canon gay couple.

>>9736
Their backstory is interesting but is only revealed in a guidebook so I like the pairing, but it's more because I like Dion a lot in general.

>>9744
True. Unfortunately the more time passed the more artists kept drawing Joshua as a cuntboy.

>>9744
I don't like Clive much at all. And while I ~love~ the traditional leader and his devoted right-hand man coupling…
I have to say I am still a Dion/Joshua truther.
>>9750
Dion was the best character and I am trying to manifest a DLC about him.

>>9741
ARYT, I was talking about Hoyo fujos with the lore stuff, probably should have made that more clear. I wouldn't call myself a Fate fan but I've seen the original 2006 Stay/Night anime and played the VN. Some of the boys are cute (Gilgamesh he should bottom) but the series seemed very male-pandering especially with FGO which is why I said I didn't really understand Fate fujos. I'm more interested now in the series if it gives you content and interactions to work with. No hate either, most weebshit I keep up with is aimed at males myself. I should probably watch Fate Zero (and UBW) at some point. Thanks for your reply, I understand it better now.

>>9746
>>9748
The toybox element is a good point with fandom and fic and why series like Naruto get so many stories along with canon content for fujos. I want to see the next really big shonenslop series to be set in an interesting world (ideally not low fantasy Tokyo) with pretty boys. What are some series that had very high potential and a good base for fic that turned out to be mediocre? This discussion interests me.

>>9718
i would disagree but then i remember this came out 12 years ago and we haven't gotten anything comparable ever since.

a cast of 15+ cute guys with ripped bodies constantly wet and on display all over each other, with relationships tip-toeing on romance. only 2 of them showed interest in a girl and it was just comedic relief anyways.

the fact there hasn't been a single anime that has done the same thing to this degree in over a decade is very telling. this industry is so anti-fujo and generally anti-women not even easy money motivates them to feed us properly…

>>9755
We had Yuri on Ice after Free but Mappa fucked up so bad it became a dead franchise soon after and even Junichi Suwabe seemed lowkey pissed off on twitter when Mappa finally confirmed we'll never get the movie. And the reason why they neglected Yuri on Ice on purpose is because they never had faith in the series to begin with and didn't negociate the way they should have with other companies involved in the project so they barely saw any profits from the anime and merchandises. Kyoani is more likely to adapt niche manga and novels for otaku, I assume that's why they were a lot more invested in Free. I'm still mad at Mappa to this day, I think I'll keep seething in my 80s.

>>9757
mappa's treatment of yuri on ice was really disgusting. such a good and beloved series fading out like this when tons of trashy series get all kinds of sequels and spin-offs is very unfair.

i agree that yuri on ice had some similarities with free, however it wasn't nearly as fanservice-y. free's entire staple was to have tons and tons of bishies half-naked on screen and fujobaiting in various combinations of ships for the entire duration of the episode. it was much more unabashed and titillating than yuri on ice, which was "just" a truly sports anime with a canon gay couple.

>>9755
Boueibu Season 4 is airing right now, it might not have as much nudity as Free but it definitely gets up there with the fanservice. Current one has MC transforming in a naked apron.
Each season has had some pretty blatant shipbait and there has also been pretty blatant canon gay. While at the same time they did do an otome game spinoff…? It's kind of bizarre considering the show is all BL fanservice. The actual anime is like those moe shows that never show a male except flipped.

>>9759
I mostly compared Free and Yuri on Ice because of how well received they were by their target audience and how male otaku seethed when they were airing. And Free season 1 and Yuri on Ice are around the same length and they're original works (sort of for Free) as well. It's a better comparison than WSJ anime adaptations of sports manga that aren't made specifically for fujoshi but have strong fujoshi fanbases because I know back then on tumblr everyone kept comparing Free to series like Haikyuu or Prince of Tennis.

>>9760
>The actual anime is like those moe shows that never show a male except flipped.
I only watched the first season but I just remembered how the "antagonist" goal made absolutely no sense because there aren't any female characters whatsoever in the season, it was the funniest shit ever. I need to rewatch it soon.

>>9718
I wish there were more anime like Hetalia, this was the anime that made me into a fujoshi. The amount of cute, well designed males with fun personalities and crazy levels of fujobait is great, and the premise itself is actually good and interesting. I feel like the only anime that come close to this level of fujo appeal are sports genre which i have no interest in.

>>9760
oh i've heard about boueibu, i've always been curious about it since i like magical girls, but i get the feeling it's a very low quality production (and tbh i think the guys are ugly lol). what do you think about it nona?

>>9761
yeah i get it nona, and i agreed with you that you can make a comparison between yoi and free. i remember the male otakus meltdown over both, it was so silly.
its just that in the op i was talking about an anime that oversexualizes a large cast of bishies and teases lots of ships between them as its main selling point, rather than other types of similarities between the two.

>>9761
>I only watched the first season but I just remembered how the "antagonist" goal made absolutely no sense because there aren't any female characters whatsoever in the season
Do you mean the episode with the monster that was turning all the boys gay and the student council's plan was to stop humans from reproducing? Kek
>>9764
>what do you think about it nona?
I loved season 1 and 2, was disappointed by season 3, and am currently being disappointed by season 4. The budget has definitely never been great but the novelty of magical boys is enough to keep me watching. The only problem with the later seasons is that they keep repeating the formula without doing enough to change it up, plus focusing too much on the MOTW aspect. I noticed when rewatching the first season that a lot less time was spent on the monsters and more time was spent on the boys, but now it's the opposite.
They've also really dropped the ball on the character designs recently. We peaked in S2.

>>9762
What I miss the most isn't even the fujopandering in anime like hetalia because I honestly just stick to older fandoms, but the combination of fun premise with potential for nerds to immerse themselves (geopolitics/history/geography/militarism) + cute bishies.
Not my intention to derail the thread, but It's seems that most anime/manga made for the first group I mentioned (fun premise for nerds) are simply made for men.

>>9733
The canon gay is with a very boring side characters and it has little influence on the story. Not nearly as fun to ship as Sefikura or Noctis with any of the guys.

>>9741
FGO has always felt like a less fujo friendly franchise despite me knowing it does get yaoi. The English side of the fandom is mostly dude based considering its an wrote and there's a lot of self insert het yume content to wade through. The yaoi ships don't seem to get any readable fanfics in comparison to other fandoms.

>>9767
>yaoi ships don't seem to get any readable fanfics in comparison to other fandoms
This is the metric by which I judge whether or not fandoms are "for" fujos. I understand that it's a personal and biased opinion, but in my experience the % of M/M fanfic is directly proportionate to how comfortable the EN fandom is. It has been said here and in other threads how fujos are drawn to play with toys in the sandbox and fanfic is the most accurate measurement of this quality (modern fanart is muddled by financial gain).

>>9768
I disagree tbh, by that metric Genshin is be super fujo.

>>9768
But what would you call something like GeGeGe or Orb, which have practically NO english fanfics but the fandom is entirely japanese with tons of fanart?

>>9770
>NO english fanfics but the fandom is entirely japanese with tons of fanart
Contains a high chemistry ship but has a low sandbox score (Bravern also falls into this category). I enjoy them but they are ephemeral and unlikely to reach "lifelong OTP I still think about years later" status. To use a food analogy: for me fanfics are complex carbs and fanart is sugar.
>>9769
Gachashit's inability to ever have canon m/f ships is one of the few objectively nice things about them and I view them as fujo friendly because of this.

>>9771
Samefag but an example of the opposite (high sandbox/low chemistry ship) would be shit like Kylux from Star Wars. "Migratory Slash Fandom" is like a false positive on the fujometer haha

>>9722
I get it but I also get the urge to want to be into popular things only so I can have fanfics that I can actually read. I don't think the canon status of ships matters that much, and people are more attracted to the ability to play around in a world than really needing canon.

>>9727
Shuake was done so dirty by Atlus with them ignoring them and doing some "up to your interpretation" which only pleased the incel guys who hated Akechi. Persona is one of the franchises where I feel the least welcome as a female players and I know Shuake has shooters defending this ambiguous nonsense but I say as fujos we demand better since its only the dudebros who get what they want, not us.

>>9730
I feel like Hoyoverse also now dripfeeding ships to people based on tropes instead of people shipping on their own is also why it all feels like slop. People rush to ship the new yaoi because a leak said it would be baited, that's how sad it is. While I remember early Genshin fandom where people shipped more for fun and cooked their own food based on voicelines and wanting to go "behind the scenes", which is good fuel for shipping, to now only being about shipping whatever is canon and then hating on ships that aren't "canon".

>also get the urge to want to be into popular things only so I can have fanfics that I can actually read. I don't think the canon status of ships matters that much

In the fandom I'm in (few fujos fandom) people do tend to just, ship the canon ship because it's validating, like they can self insert into the girl so most fanfics are the same rehashed y/a romance novel like.
Everytime there are no fujos in a fandom the "popular" ship always ends being the canon or the closest to canon basically.
I don't really care about popularity thou, I've seen the popular ship in my fandom for example and most of its content is samey tumblr anime looking fanarts that feel out of character. Meanwhile, my ship might not have much content, but the few fanarts it does have are honestly some of the best I’ve seen in the fandom. Quality over quantity, basically.

Fujos really need to start seriously gatekeeping, because the concept of yaoi and fujoshi is devolving into an internet meme for many people and lots of people who speak on the topic only know about it through viral memes to the point I'm convinced most braindead fujoshi and yaoi related discourse would be gone overnight if people had actual standards for who gets to speak on these things. Start quizzing people on BL anime, ask them who their favorite BL mangaka is and what they think of the current state of BL in the industry and how they think danmei or BL manwha compares to standard Japanese BL manga and if they can't answer any of your questions and only know yaoi because of yaoi paddles or yaoi hands or fandom ship discourse or whatever, they're a poser and don't get an opinion.
Same for people that hate yaoi. If they complain about misogyny/homophobia in BL but their only experience with misogynistic/homophobic fujoshi is through non-canon shipping in non-BL media (even worse if it's FOTM fandoms like Arcane), they also don't get an opinion at all. The fact that nerdy spaces stopped being obnoxious and autistic about shit like this is the reason most anti-fujo takes are even entertained, no matter how false or nonsensical they may be. You have to read/watch/play actual honest to god BL if you want to shit on it, you need to be able to point to specific examples of your grievances that aren't just the same Okane ga Nai cover art over and over again.
I think the reason a lot of fujos aren't really open to the idea of gatekeeping is because it's something that's associated with annoying and stupid misogynistic male nerds, but I feel like it's about time we develop some standards because discourse has only gotten worse over time and most people who feel the need to share their hot takes couldn't name a non-turbo mainstream BL title to save their lives.

>>9782
I honestly agree but I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of fujos exclusively read doujin material/fanfics. Would you consider them to be part of the general fujo osmosis as long as they name their favorite doujin artists or would you consider them to be in a different category?

>>9783
ayrt, you're right and doujinshi/fanfic culture is very much integral to fujoshi culture itself, but I feel like my point would still be the same. Do you know the basics of doujin or slash history, do you know a little bit about the conventions where your favourite doujin artists sell their works, can you tell me why you hate specific common tropes like omegaverse without sounding like a faux academic gendie sperging about transmisogyny or whatever the fuck… My main point is that I want both fandom and non-fandom autists, both fans and haters alike, to at least know something about what they constantly sperg about that goes beyond twitter discourse. Like, could any of the people constantly bitching about AO3 and how much M/M content it has actually explain to me why they don't like those fics for any reason that isn't tribalism coated in fake feminist platitudes? I doubt it. I doubt they've even read any of those fics in the first place, honestly. Which is exactly my problem with modern fandom. Fandom discourse a constant game of telephone that becomes so far removed from the original material that at this point we could consider twitter discourse baiters their own not so little fandom.

>>9784
>can you tell me why you hate specific common tropes like omegaverse
Because it's gross. Simple as.
You start sounding like
>a faux academic
yourself. What's next? Demanding essays to prove your 'tru&honest fan' worth?

>>9784
>I love doujinshi
>Oh yeah? Name three conventions that aren't Comiket
That's a funny thought but that would be a block from me.

>>9782
>Start quizzing people on BL anime, ask them who their favorite BL mangaka is and what they think of the current state of BL in the industry and how they think danmei or BL manwha compares to standard Japanese BL manga
I've been a fujo for at least 20 years and I've never read BL manga or watched BL anime.
I'm pretty sure a lot of fujos don't consume pure BL either and are predominantly shippers. Am I a fake fujo for being purely a shipper, and not an Avid Consumer of Queer Media (tm)?

>>9786
I've read doujins (and zines) for probably a decade at this point and couldn't tell you a lot about cons because I'm an American who lives in the middle of nowhere…

>>9782
Honestly, I agree. I don't think its that hard to read bl manga if you consider yourself a fujo.
Not ever reading bl manga and not watching bl anime, not being able to remark on stuff happening in the source material, can *only* talk about fanfic?
Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't really think that you're a fujo the same way I don't think somebody who has never watched anime or read manga is a weeb because they read their kid's fanfic.
At least, there should be seperate categories. I'm tired of trying to start conversations with other fujo only to get "I don't read bl manga, they're kinda shit lol but have you seen this mafia au fanfic for Arcane?" and "anime is full of sexist tropes so I don't watch any, theres no reason to think about whats there, I just spend my time on wattpad".
Maybe have it be a "fanficer" or something.

>>9790
By that logic western fandom fujos aren't fujos unless they also watch canon gay TV shows or read gay literature.

>>9791
Why not read some books, tbh I've been wanting to get into reading more myself.

>>9790
people are fujos for different reasons, a ship from an anime or jrpg where romance is not the focus of the story is more appealing to some rather than reading about two people falling in love. it doesn't make them less of a fujo.

>>9793
I have tried but the gay books I've seen recommended have all been mediocre genre fiction imo.
>lmao but you still watch anime/read manga
It's not that what I consume is superior, it's just what I happen to enjoy.

>>9794
>I have tried
Then that's fine. Its not like something like Song of Achilles calls for that much commitment, its a single novel.
>>9794
Thats when
>not being able to remark on stuff happening in the source material
Its one thing to like reading bait, its another when somebody doesn't have interest in the bait or story past tropes they can use for fanfic. Past experience, they're always very disrespectful too, calling the authors trash and garbage and making fun of the more genuine fans for taking their dolls too seriously.

>>9787
I've roughly been a fujo the same amount of time and also just don't feel the same way about original BL manga and anime. There was a period in highschool where I was reading everything scanlated regardless of quality and there are BL mangaka I really enjoy like Nakamura Asumiko, but I have no idea what's popular anymore on that front since all I read these days are fanfics. It's kind of hard to articulate why I like derivative romance but not original works. I think part of it is the works that got me into BL are things like Descendants of Darkness, Petshop of Horrors, and Clamp works. I've always preferred shonen ai with the underlying pining to series with romance as the main focus and I think fanfics are an extension of that it's just the mushy bits are by someone else not the main auhor.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's how I feel. Ignoring that though I think it's kind of goofy to say someone who's diet is 100% fanworks is somehow lesser than someone who engages with only original stuff. They're different but I wouldn't call one worse than the other.

>>9795
>mediocre genre fiction imo
Same. With "romance" media in general (including BL/danmei) I feel like I have to trade "genuine interest" for "explicitly canon relationship". Outside of the sainted Yamane Ayano's Finder series I tend to not to really chew on BL after I put it down. Just once I would love for something I am already into to end with what I am already shipping being canon, you know?

I definitely think there should be some gatekeeping for fandom at large but "no true scotsfujo" tests would just divide us.
>>9798
>fanfics are an extension of that it's just the mushy bits are by someone else not the main auhor
It's like this for me too. Fanfics are the free DLC to the source material. Your ending was bugged (locked into canon het)? There's a patch up on Ao3.

>>9782
>If they complain about misogyny/homophobia in BL

Also what they mean by misogyny in BL is "I don't have a female character i can see myself in i am literally dying right now reee"
That's what they mean.
Misogyny has to be one of to be most misused words to this day, and ironically it was used against other women the most.

>>9785
>Demanding essays to prove your 'tru&honest fan' worth?
nta but i think anon was trying to make a difference between a "casual" fan and someone who actually, has real interest in whichever their hobby is.

I do think fujos can be both people who read bl and people shipping bl couples, shipping in the end is how bl came to be such a popular genre, it's like yumes and otome/shoujo, they are interchangeable imo.

Everyone starts somewhere obviously,i started with shipping a long time ago and from that i passed into junjou romantica and vns etc but the thing is, especially now people are literally just finding stuff on pinterest and tiktok, which they barely know anything about, and they pretend they are fans just because it's trending.
It's bothersome because like this you can't tell who is a real fan and is as dedicated like you are for example or who is just memeing together with their friends.

Best characters in Ouran are Renge and the Lobelia girls, the guys+Haruhi are all kinda meh or annoying.

>>9808
I couldn't finish the anime because it's not really my type of humor and I'm sure the manga is better when it comes to how funny scenes are presented. The only characters I really liked were the twins. I found Haruhi boring as hell, she's just there to yell at the other characters when they say or do stupid shit. Worse than Shinpachi because at least in Gintama he also has his own retarded moments.

Office romances are about as interesting as school romances, which is to say they're BORING AS FUCK.

>>9818
Office romance where one of the main guys doesn't get along with the super hot and popular guy from the sales department at first crack me up, you just know the mangaka don't know what sales departments in big companies do and it's all just a shortcut to say that the guy is so hot and charismatic he can sell one billion yen contracts to anyone at the snap of a finger. It's also funny when they invent random bullshit to make it look like the characters are totally busy and working overtime. I don't mind office romance by itself and like looking at fictional ikemen wearing well tailored suits but some scenes always make me do a double take.

>>9818
Tfw your ship don't even work in an office but a lot of their fic feels like people inserting standard office tropes and just making them do endless amounts of paperwork and business trips. Feels like a 'write what you know' sort of thing, it would at least be good if people remembered the actually interesting parts of their jobs sometimes. You also get all the fantasy elements of the universe totally stripped out sometimes to the extent that you could really just be reading a random office BL manga in fic form.

>>9760
>>9765
Boueibu doesn't seem to have much of a fandom at all, I saw nothing about s3 and s4 most likely will get no traction in the West because it doesn't have a simulcast and fujos also don't like to watch these shows. I think joseimuke anime or even shounen that has an all guy cast for fujos like BSD doesn't become popular anymore (BSD is also an older series). I think Western fujos just changed, they don't want to write fanfics for joseimuke properties. They want to write where the most people are, and that's shounen. But now most of the popular shounen anime and series in the West aren't friendly for fujos or for fic writing if you want a cast with a lot of guys where you can write deviations from canon and there's rivalries and all the fun stuff.

>>9771
It depends, gachashit like Hoyoslop is open for fic but the ships never have much to do with the main plot and the "company pushed" ships lack flavor because the company replies on fujos to do marketing and make free art while their real audience are incels. It's not worth being a literal second class citizen with Hoyoslop but again, Western fujos just don't like joseimuke. The only one that got popular was Twisted Wonderland and there you have to share with insane yumejoshis.

>>9782
I don't think we should start saying it's wrong to ship noncanon in non BL media though. That's also fujoshi culture, that's how it got reclaimed in Japan. They were drawing noncanon ships from Gundam and Jojo and early sports anime. What fujos need to do is tell these people to shut up and that not writing someone's favorite het ship isn't misogyny and that they're not obligated to do it. If they really cared about more girls in fics, they would go after all the waifu moids. Ask them why they can't be bothered to write fics and why their only interest in waifus is ai generated porn and harem. But we know why these yumes and yuritroons don't go after men. They're too scared and too many fujos fold to them.

>>9782
>mangaka
>danmei
>manwha
>manga
>no mention of VNs
VN fujos are truly the most oppressed minority…

>>9828
VNs are dying out in the West because a lot of people in fandom now can't read. They literally can't read. They need cutscenes so they can post about "aura" and they only get their opinions about stories from streamers and tiktok. I'm not even exaggerating, many even admit they don't read and hate games that require reading.

>>9832
VN are dying everywhere, it's very well know there is a massive crisis in JP due to gacha eating most of the market.

VN was never a good medium, broo I love reading novels but it has to be in bits where I have to click past the character changing expressions for 45 minutes, Norman Rockwell Freedom of Speech.

>>9869
>VN was never a good medium
0/10 opinion

>>9869
Ignoring the hot take, I will admit it kinda annoys me that I have to click to get to the next line. Like I wish there was more text to read before having to click.