/wes/ - Western & Alternative Style

Merry Christmas to you t0o!

>What books have you read recently?
Mostly nonfiction if I'm being honest, last fiction book I read was The Water-Babies by Charles Kingsley. Great story, I love darker fables, no shipping potential or hot men at all though.

>Fav character from book
George from Of Mice and Men, I think his relationship with Lennie is sweet, but it isn't sugar coated. You can see both his frustration at and love of his friend over the course of the short novel and I think he's a relatable character.

>Fav book
Animal Farm by George Orwell and Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carrol. As already mentioned I love dark fables and they're childhood favorites. If we're talking in terms of pure shipping though I'll drop Dracula by Bram Stoker. Epistolary fiction is fun to read, but besides that all the men have ridiculous homoerotic vibes between them. My favorite is the great lust for Dracula that Harker clearly has. Yeah his power is to seduce women, but the author writes in a way it obviously works on men as well.

>What kind of homo tension do you enjoy in your books
I don't read a lot of romance novels so I'm looking for strong "broships," I want men with emotions beyond just being stoic. I want complicated relationships that don't just involve two guys fighting over a women. Villain/Protag ships are pretty great in mystery and crime novels. I also like anytime a character internally goes into way too much detail when describing a male friend.

>Fav period for books to be written in?
I can't tell if you mean setting-wise or actual publication date. In terms of the real world I like a lot of late-1800s and early 20th century classics. In terms of setting I usually prefer stuff in fantastical lands, stuff like Oz or Wonderland. Anything with talking animals and weird magic. Not so much high fantasy like Tolkien's work.

>Books you wanna read
I've got a copy of House of Leaves lying around that I haven't opened yet at some point I'll get to it. Ulysses is another one on my to-read list but it's very daunting.

OP can you give some recommendations? I'm not familiar with older literature but I'm always looking for works with ship potential. Also, what's the pic from?

>>628
Not OP but one of my favourite books is Demian by Hermann Hessethis author served some inspo for oldschool BL it's a quite interesting book. There are themes of early psychology which creates an interesting dynamic between the two leads. One of the leads is a manifestation of the other lead's alter ego but he is also a manifestation of his general desires but also a way to show his disconnect with his peers. I could talk a lot about this book… now I want to reread it lol. Spiritualism is also a big theme of the book, which is something I personally can't relate to but the author explores this in an interesting matter that really makes you understand the MC's turmoil.
I don't think the book is super well written compared to other older litt but it's a solid coming of age story and the ending did make me cry(it's a satisfying ending that really moved me).
Another old book with potential BL elements is The Great Gatsby. Both of these books are quite easy to get trough so I do recommend them.
There are more but these are the only one I can think of right now. Sorry if this sounds incomprehensible it's a mix of me phoneposting, being ESL, sleepy and being excited to talk about my fave book

>>628
OP here

'Raffles' is a story about a dandy who breaks and enters. Sort of like Sherlock Holmes, written in overlapping era, but with crime as a focus. Not so much murder as pure thrills of wether or not Raffles and his admiring assistant Bunny will be getting away with the crime (they don't always).

'Brideshead Revisited' is a bitter-sweet book about the fall of British Aristocracy with heavy catholic themes. It includes what is effectively a gay romance that ends sadly. It's never explored as a romance, rather described as a deep friendship, which makes it ripe for fic interpretation.

It's a very prettily written book, has vibes of the final afternoon of summer.

Seconding the rec of The Great Gatsby for how homoerotic it unintentionally comes off as, it has a similar vibe as BR, but more American, more frank, more capitalist rather than religious.

>>620
Thank you for the nice answer! I should get back to the Water Babies at some point, glad to hear it holds water (pun intended).

Dracula/Harker is one of those things that you don't expect, and it isn't the main thing of most adaptations or even the novel itself, but I'll unabashedly admit that Johnathan was my favourite for coming off as so sweetly victimized, even fainting. I'm glad Dracula Daily has gotten him back into the spotlight, although I'm still reluctant to engage with Tumblr.

>>629
Thank you for the rec! I love oldschool BL too! Who did it inspire? is it Alouise by Moto Hagio? I'm going to look that up as soon as I am able to, thank you so much <3 It's time I read more German-language stuff.

Gatsby is a good book, but I was dismayed back when I was first interested in it by the lack of fics where Gatsby bottoms (Yes, I am a simple nona). Do you like any film adaptations, or do you have a headcast for Gatsby? I always preferred Redford myself.

>>630
I will definitely look into Raffles and Brideshead Revisited. Anything that deals with aristocracy is good.
>is it Alouise by Moto Hagio?
I haven't read this manga by her but I do know that Moto Hagio and similar authors in the year 24 group liked Hesse's work.
>Do you like any film adaptations, or do you have a headcast for Gatsby? I always preferred Redford myself
>I was dismayed back when I was first interested in it by the lack of fics where Gatsby bottoms
Finding fics of books is already hard to begin with but it's even harder when you can't find one that fits your preferences.
I have only seen the 2013 version and a stage play version. I liked how Leonardo Dicaprio played Gatsby but I don't think he really looked the part. Robert Redford looks much more like how I imagined Gatsby.I really liked Carey Mulligan as Daisy in the 2013 version though.

Jeeves/Wooster gang rise up

The most homoerotic book I've ever read was Moby Dick. I expected a whale hunt and got BL.
>>620
I've read Ulysses many times. It's not nearly as difficult as they say it is.

Not really a book person but I just started reading The Brothers Karamazov and so far there's not much BL material, unless you're into shipping brothers ( ° ʖ °). I don't know if it's a Russian thing or a 19th century thing but the characters touch and kiss each other so freely, and that shit activates my almonds more than I thought it would kek

I really like the brothers and the dynamics between them too. There's mutual respect but also an underlying sense of tension. Again, I haven't read that far in but I sure hope nothing bad happens :)

Also, these grown ass Russian men speak just like anime characters lmao. I can't tell if the version of the book I have is poorly translated or if it's supposed to be like that but either way I'm immensely enjoying the read so far.

>>634
Read this ages ago in middle school out of spite since my parents told me I couldn't read it since it was too hard.

I definitely didn't get as much out of it as I could have if I waited a few years, but I remember liking Ivan a lot.

Do you read a lot of Russian lit? I haven't read that much and would love to check more out.

>>634
Crime and Punishment was super homo, actually. Pic rel.
>grown ass Russian men speak just like anime characters
This is the way Dostoevsky writes. He wasn't writing characters but rather personified philosophies by exaggerating different sides of human nature. Other pic rel.
Also, Alyosha is my /lit/ husbando. I want to marry him so badly.
>>635
NTA but I recommend Notes from the Underground, also by Dostoevsky, because it's short. I also like Gogol's The Overcoat short story.

>>632
I don't think the books are very homo in my opinion - But I am seconding nonnies' rec, because the books are great, the miniseries is nice, the books are seriously funny if you like escapist upper-class shenanigans with low stakes. Bertie is a lovely blond.

The TV series is further relaxation with nice backgrounds and clothes. Everything is 1920's and nothing hurts.

There's also a lot of good fic for the series that is homo in a very well done way, so the books are definitely are relevant for BL lovers who like the setting and characters.

If you want 1920's but find gay stuff about it too depressing, this is your book.

>>636
Thank you, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who wanted these two to end up together.

Weak, dangerous, ax-crazy little Rodya and protective sempai, a very good but rare combo.

>>634
I think it has to do with the differences in culture, and how Russians wanted 'everything and the kitchen sink' while Brits want the most words to fill stuff out in a funny way (Please feel free to debate me). Glad to hear this about the brothers Karamazov, is getting me to buy and read it after stalling for so long.

Fuck it, I'm a day late on Christmas but I just want to drop that I ship Scrooge/Marley from A Christmas Carol.

Scrooge has many reasons to hate Christmas, but one reason overlooked in a lot of adaptations is that Marley died Christmas day. Personally I interpret that the grief he felt over Marley's death was sort of a tipping point for this already cynical man, cemented his hatred for the season after Belle also dumped him on the day. Scrooge was literally the only one to mourn at Mareley's funeral and the only one to grieve his passing. They were close friends, and it's easy to imagine that turning into something more during the long hours in the office all alone. Even without that though, the fact that nobody wanted to grieve because it was on Christmas? You'd be bitter too.

And of course Marley was assigned to save his friends soul, the book doesn't give us too many glimpses into his mind, but you still have to imagine he'd feel something being tasked with saving his old business partner. Grief, pity? Again it's a shame that it isn't explored more canonically since Dickens is racing to get to the other ghosts.

Maybe an embarrassing ship but I don't care.

>>659
headcanon accepted. This makes so much sense

>>659
I…. I ship it too. Adsfdsds. It's not embarrassing, it makes sense given that couples tend to grow stuff together, like families and farms and restaurants, a company doesn't sound far off the mark at all, especially for the Victorian period. Those dudes were all about Notations and Being in Print, this would be one of the few ways for two men to be 'Partners' in a sense of almost being married.

Schiller's Don Carlos has a kind of shippy feel at times with Roderigo and Carlos. Not the worst thing you could read from uhh 1787. Also the real Carlos was an inbred Habsburg nut case which is kinda amusing if you're a shitty person like me.

I'm this anon >>634 back after a year to report that I have now read practically everything Dostoyevsky has ever written. And I don't have anything intelligent to say about it other than… god damn. This man had the midas touch
but instead of gold, he turned everything he touched into yaoi. I'm in awe at how effortlessly he wrote compelling relationships between his male characters and just how much he sucked at writing good het romances kek. All of his het couples are basically just
>uhh, they made eye contact once and instantly fell in love
Then he goes on to meticulously describe how these two male characters who are bitter rivals kissed each other on the mouth for five pages. He does this shit all the time and I absolutely love it! Sometimes I wonder if any 19th century Russian ladies had a fujo awakening by reading Dostoyevsky's works kek.

I'd also like to retract my previous statement about The Brothers Karamazov not being BL material. That could not be further from the truth omg it's the promised land for brother/brother incest enjoyers. There's so much delicious drama and tension between all of them and each pairing comes with its own unique flavour and dynamics. I owe my life to Dostoyevsky for writing Alyosha giving Ivan a cute little kiss on the mouth. I am this close to writing fanfiction about it.

As for his other works, I'd say his longer stories have the most homoeroticism in them. So stuff like The Idiot and Crime and Punishment get really gay at certain points. I found The Eternal Husband to be unexpectedly homo too. I definitely recommend it for people into the 'pathetic middle-aged man' trope in BL kek.

Anyway, I'm glad I picked up The Brothers Karamazov last year. It really opened my eyes to the world of Russian lit and now I want to branch out to other authors. I want to give Gogol and Pushkin a try, maybe Tolstoy but I'm not too sure.

>>841
Nona, thank you so much for your report. The Fujo gods are pleased.

Can you please tell me more about the ship in the Idiot, or would that be spoiler-y?

Man, I'm looking forward to getting back to Crime & Punishment now

>>845
I'll try my best to keep it spoiler-free in case you decide to read it nona. The main m/m ship would be between the main character Prince Muishkin and his romantic rival Rogojin. Though the Prince has one other romantic rival, Rogojin has a more pivotal role. They don't spend a lot of time with each other but the most significant plot points always happen when they're together. The story opens with these two meeting for the first time and it ends with them… together in a sense. Kek it's really impossible to explain the appeal without spoilers.

Even though they're supposed to be rivals, they don't really outwardly show hostility towards each other; they're actually pretty friendly for the most part. Here's a minor spoiler but there's a scene where they exchange crucifixes together, a gesture meant to show that two people have been bound together as "sworn brothers". Rogojin then takes the Prince to meet his mother and he has her give them her blessings. They basically got married in this scene kek

The story ends in the gayest way possible too. I won't spoil it but it was verrrry juicy. I'll be honest there were times when I'd get bored of all the bullshit het relationship drama but the pay-off was absolutely worth it. Definitely give it a read if you get the chance nona!

And good luck on your read-through of Crime and Punishment. It's quite possibly the best piece of literature I've ever read. It was so fun to read I was physically unable to put it down for longer than an hour. And not to mention the fujobait was god-tier. Raskolnikov and Razumikhin are such an unbelievably perfect match and they have so many cute moments together. They're definitely my lit otp.

Wuthering Heights but Lockwood slowly uncovers Heathcliff's backstory while staying with him and slowly seduces him away from the memory of Catherine.

Starting Les Mis and I'm hoping its as gay as people promise. Its a massive tome, my copy has over 1000 pages its honestly pretty intimidating.

>>1051
Enjoy, nona!
Do get back to us about it. What is it that attracted you about it?

It's a good book, but a lot of the fandom came from female nerds nerding out about small portions of the book.

That said, the old man yaoi is very solid imo.

>>1053
I'm still in the opening with Bishop Myriel but I will be sure to keep you updated!

>What is it that attracted you about it?
I'm trying to read more 1800s novels since I feel like my reading diet for the last 7 or so years has been solely fanfiction. I guess I feel "uncultured" since I have bookshelves full of classics I've never actually read. Les Mis one I bought from a garage sale back when I was still in school and never started it mainly since I was just too young at the time. I think it was when the musical got a film adaptation so I remember loving the music, but I honestly could not tell you what happened in it right now except that "All I did was steal some bread." and liking Jean Valjean.
Its an epic with a ton of different threads so I'm hoping with a bit of historical research for some of the figures and conflicts mentioned I will really enjoy it!

>>1054
Which translation are you reading, out of curiosity?

>>1055
"Lee Fabnestock"

This edition here
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24280.Les_Mis_rables

Good one? Is there a preferred translation?

>>1056
Oh! You're lucky, that is the preferred translation!

That one is a combination of a translation made of Les Mis at the time Les Mis was published, but with added passages that were previously cut. It's considered to the most faithful from what I recall of translation discourse.

>>1051
I hope you like it!! Les Mis can feel like a bit of a marathon at parts, but it's one of the most rewarding stories I've ever read. There's a good amount of fan art despite the book's age.
>>841
>This man had the midas touch but instead of gold, he turned everything he touched into yaoi.
Kek this is so accurate. I know this is an old post, but if you're still around, have you read The Double? If so, how was it? I haven't read it yet, but I really enjoy the other books I've read by Dostoevsky, and this one looks like it has potential.

>>1060
I'm still around and yes I have read The Double! I did enjoy it but I have to say it has a bit of a different "vibe" compared to his other works. Apparently it's one of Dostoevsky's earlier works, from before he was imprisoned and given the death penalty, so he hadn't fully developed his style yet at that point and it shows. It feels kind of unfinished almost and it's a bit trippy, but that's to be expected since you're basically reading about a guy going through a schizophrenic mental breakdown.
Unfortunately it didn't have any fujo potential, at least in my opinion. Some might enjoy the mindfuck aspect though. But it was an interesting read despite all that and I recommend it if you go in with an open mind!

>>1061
Thanks! I'll go into it with an open mind. Crime and Punishment is one of my all-time favorite books, and I tend to enjoy stuff with a weird or trippy vibe, so I'll probably enjoy The Double. Shame about the lack of fujo potential, though.

Finished a Dorian Gray re-read, had previously read it in middle school and as a 20-something I got way more out of it. It's very philosophical and the ruminations on the sexes, vanity, and morality are so wordy I'm glad I re-read it to actually appreciate the long conversations the characters are having. It's also neat of course that Basil, even in the censored version of the story, is so unambiguously filled with love for Dorian. No spoilers since it's short enough I think everyone would read it, but in a differnt timeline I think one-sided, abusive Dorian, toxic yaoi could have realistically flown had an encounter gone differently. Dorian could have easily wrapped Basil around his finger and toyed with him if he wanted to.

>>1216
It's been a while since I've read it but isn't Basil kinda boring and barely there? I thought Henry with his witty quips had more of a connction with Dorian…

>>1217
Not really? Basil isn't as outspoken as Henry but he basically spends the entire book lusting after Dorian. He's the painter of the portrait and totally-platonically appreciates his beauty "I worshiped you too much and now I'm punished for it." Henry is their bitchy friend who spends the entire first part of the book complaining about women but also poisons Dorian's mind to cynicism and vanity. Henry and Dorian have more in common with their ethics and ideals, but Henry also basically exits the novel for the second act since Dorian has alienated everyone including him. Both Henry and Basil are positioned as negatively impacting Dorian just in different way (through both positivity and negativity.) I agree Henry is the more proactive character, but Basil is the one who gets the 1800s love confession and as a fan of one-sided pining I'm here for it.

What I'm saying is I accept your ship suggestion as a valid option but Basil/Dorian is my preferred dynamic.

>>1216
Should I read the censored version and then the uncensored version?

>>1219
The censored version is longer since it's the version that was actually published as a novel, the uncensored version is the magazine run of it.

I've read them too far apart to know if you should read both or just one, but here's an article with a comparison of the text so you could decide which one to start with at least.
https://lithub.com/a-close-reading-of-the-originally-censored-passages-of-the-picture-of-dorian-gray/

I just finished reading Dracula for the first time and it's got me feeling very halloween-y.
There was a lot of men suffering and crying in each other's arms which I enjoyed. Jonathan Harker is so moe too; Count Drac should've bit him instead of his wife.
One thing that really caught my eye was when Dracula was forcing Mina to drink from him by pushing her face into his boobs. You don't see a lot of that in vampire fiction; it's always drinking from the neck or the wrist. As I was reading I was getting hundreds of vampire BL ideas where the vampire feeds from his victim by biting his chest or his nipples instead of his neck hehehe…
I think I'll read Carmilla next since I'm on a vampire roll lately (I'm also watching Hellsing), though I'm not expecting anything BL-worthy from it.

I don't always have the attention span for reading so I've been slowly going through Sherlock Holmes about one chapter per night before I go to bed. I'm having a good time with it. It also surprised me how quickly Watson got married but in the grand scheme of things it also feels like his marriage didn't change much.

>>1398
I love Dracula, epistolary fiction is always so fun and I love the atmosphere. I already read Renfield as having a crush on Dracula so they were my unpopular ship compared to Harker and him. Though the underlying tension between Harker and Drac is great

>I think I'll read Carmilla next
Let me know if it's any good, that one is perpetually on my to-read list and I've never gotten around to it.

>>1402
>I already read Renfield as having a crush on Dracula
Yes nona! They're such a rarepair but they're my favorite classic horror ship.

>>1399
It's me again. Something so weird happened that I had to look up a Sherlock timeline to see if I misunderstood the situation but it does in fact seem like Watson moves back in with Holmes at Baker street in a period of time when he's supposed to still be married but Watson's wife is literally not mentioned at all. Did Doyle forget that she exists? Was the wife a no homo plot element that he ended up discarding because her existence didn't make Holmes and Watson's relationship any less gay? In a way the wife only made it 'worse' because Watson had to constantly tell her that he was about to take a train to whatevershire to go solve a crime with his BFF.

>>1483
>Did Doyle forget that she exists?
It's been way too long since I read the books but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. I've seen very old theories from male fans from like an entire century ago saying Watson is secretly a woman and dating Sherlock but an unmarried couple living together under the same roof was scandalous so Watson made shit up to avoid suspicion like saying he's a guy the whole time or inventing his wife to hide his true relationship. Even some men from right before the first world war assumed there was more than just friendship going on between Sherlock and Watson.

>>1485
Yeah I remember a reply in the /ot/ board mentioning this to me but at the time I only just started reading so I wasn't aware of just how severely Holmes and Watson were going to make me fujo the fuck out. It's kinda funny how Moriarty the Patriot sold me on its version of Holmes/Moriarty but reading the original stories lead me somewhere different.