No.3664[View All]
The sentence "If you'd replace one or two of the main leads with women, nothing changes" made me wonder if Yoai or Bl can benefit from a bit of realism. I'm on camp neutral, personally. I don't mind some reality in my m/m smut, but one of the reasons I like BL and Joseimuke is the decoupling expectations.
Men in these stories are borne under an idealized version women yearned for but never got because society at large forces men to be something they're not, and they all believe it. Buying into lies has caused men to double down on their misogyny over the years, harming both women, children, and themselves. And when they do reach that truth, they either blot it out or troon it out. Men can never learn, so I've relegated myself to BL, as stupid as it sounds. I feel I have the most control when reality proves disappointing.
(btw, is this best place to post? /ot/ seemed promising but I choose /ffs/ instead. Made the most sense and honestly, I just wanna screech about pet theories. Please don't clown on me lol)
74 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. No.8786
For me personally HELLLLLLL NAAHHHH gay men are way too feminine irl and it makes my pussy dry up like the Sahara! A lot of yaoi the guys are also very feminine so I do prefer bara tho for that reason. But gay guys have like Babylonian levels of disgusting sex which I do not like, and yaoi has better sex scenes generally speaking. These are generalizations tho, just my 2 cents
No.8787
>>8786Speaking of it, I've playing a lot of bara VNs recently and the sex scenes in them are gross even when the overall narrative is good. I hate how deatiled the sex cgs are in the.
Imo I do want BL to be "realistic" and struggle with concepts like masculinity, homophobia, societal expectations, ect but the I still want and idealized "pure" love with a monogamous relationship.
No.8800
nobody asks men if they wanna see butchdykes in their yuri why are women the only ones who cannot enjoy their fantasies? gay men can make their own shit if it bothers them that anime boys are unrealistic
No.8801
>>8800I have never seen a gay man complain about yaoi. Most seem chill with it or just acknowledge it doesn't appeal to them.
No.8802
>>8801i have seen gay men refusing to play bl games that were intended for women because the boys are all bishies and don't act like real gay men. it's their loss though because vns made for gay men are all ugly as shit.
No.8809
>>8801A lot of gay men are genuinely misogynistic, I have seen them write things that would make the Andrew Tate incels proud.
No.8813
>>8808The Japanese version of this is okama characters and pretty much only straight guys write them. Although there are times when a very stereotypically camp looking/acting guy is actually aggressively straight (I'm thinking ORAS Wallace from Pokemon, he already had the fangirl harem in his gym since gen 3 but then they redesigned him extra camp)
No.8814
>>8802Yeah but that's not really the same as demanding fujos change it's just acknowledging you aren't the target audience and not engaging with something you don't like. Inverse would be a fujo playing Oji-mama and then complaining about how gross and ugly it is when it was never trying to capture that audience.
>>8809 this is true though especially people in drag-spaces, I don't see it as much in anime communities since it's all just enjoying the media and fictional men so there's more just a divide in interests though there are series which appeal to both like Golden Kamuy and Jojo.
No.8823
>>8822Why are they whining about "fetishization" from women (women drawing cartoons/writing) when it's a cornerstone of the gay male community to have bathhouses and gay bars and casual sex and open fetish shit and anonymous hookups according to gay men themselves? These are obviously delusional misogynistic gays. Probably jealous over how easily women can attract a man since it's very common for gays to thrist after straight men
No.8824
>>8822They talk like normies who have no idea what fandoms are at all in that screenshot.
No.8829
>>8828It's silly but thank god the guys in the video work out and aren't fat fucks or I would have thrown up. Speaking of which these same gay men wouldn't stop whining about how some guys on grindr have "masc4masc no fat no twink no asian no black" in their bio and endlessly arguing over whether tops should always suck dick or not, so maybe they should stfu about fetishization and work on their own issues first.
No.8830
>>8828Tacky masculinity (fat hairy leather bikers) = Mommy issues
Tacky femininity (flamboyant beauty guru divas) = Daddy issues
Your video = Issues with both
Otherwise they'll still have both masculine and feminine qualities (which is good), but not to a toxic extent
No.8831
>>8828yeehaw
>>8829I can always tell when somebody is chronically online when they don't even know all they have to do is peep grindr for completely unfiltered thoughts of the average gay men.
No.8832
>>8828The masculinity gay men display is behaviors that are more common in men at their core (confidence, hypersexuality / sexual aggression, etc). The femininity is more aesthetic or superficial based on their sexual orientation. Compare how TIFs are shy, neurotic, complain about hookups and dick pics, want someone to understand their feelings, etc.
Also gay men are drawn to "classic" interior-design type aesthetics or well-groomed but normal male clothes (see euro gays) or campy tacky stuff like picrel (Village People, leather, hairy, muscular, leather cowboy, daddy, etc). TIFs like stuff that's so cutesy and girly. It's different than what even the most flamboyant twinky gays would like irl but hard to explain. I think it's the sheer cutesy-ness of it.
Why would you really want to join the gay community as a straight women unless you are really naive anyways? All TIFs have to be sheltered or unaware of how gay men really are. The gay community is so sexually aggressive when it comes to hookups and it's a very lonely existence. Lots of gays don't ever settle down or find a partner, there's rampant STDs and drug abuse, most people hooking up just want sex and your body, blowing out your asshole, etc. It's a shallow world.
Most TIFs would be happier accepting being a straight woman and appreciating 2D men in peace. Most are so straight it hurts and even try to get pregnant. It's obvious they want a man who accepts them and understands their feelings. Just try to find a nice guy and settle down and read yaoi in a nice with kids if that's what you want.
No.8835
>>8830 But that's all gay men
>>8832 Sexually I agree that it is male sexuality taken to the most degen extreme, but I do think their 'masculinity' is just as fake as their 'femininity'. Both are not authentic, but a form of extreme cosplay, very similar to drag, but with their whole body.
No.8847
>>8807All of those guys have gay face and I can sense the gayness radiating off of them. Very feminine indeed, I like masculinity in men
No.8941
>>8935Unrelated but I always wondered why furshit caught on with gay and straight moids but most women I know wants nothing to do with it?
No.8942
>>8941My maybe unpopular opinion is that kemono furries (or stuff like Sylvanian Families, Pokemon, Moomin, etc) look cute if they aren't associated with degeneracy. I would try a BL written by an actual woman with BISHOUNEN kemono kek. Western furries and male fetishes are disgusting though
No.8943
>>8941My armchair analysis is that AMAB sexual proclivities awaken earlier and therefore they have a soft spot (or hard spot heh) for the cartoon animals of their childhoods at a higher rate than AFABs. I also think this is why that in general men tend to have more paraphilias than women.
>>8942I like jp anthro art but there's something about the western anthro vibe that is extremely unappealing unless it's just meant to be cute.
No.8944
>>8935>fartingI'm sorry what?
No.8946
>>8944When you are getting fucked in a hole the air getting pushed around down there can sometimes make a farting noise haha
No.8950
>>8945Thank you for these recs, I'll give Nagabe's works a shot! I also like Beastars lmao its very gay indeed
>>8947wtf
No.8971
>>8954>I would argue that straight/lesbian and bisexual women have aesthetic preferences that are closer to straight men than gay males.Do explain nonna?
No.8977
>>8971NTA but whenever you see fanart of male characters in fetish wear in commonly fetishized costumes by straight men like maid outfits, playboy bunnies, nuns, kemonomimi ears etc by women rather than leather stuff, jockstraps and beefy furries like it is in artwork for gay men.
This isn't even getting into how women and men's art overlaps pretty heavily moe wise while bara characters might as well be from a different universe.
>>8976The whole flashy thing is also a good point. Just look at dolls designed by gay men (most of the major playline fashion dolls like bratz) compared to the more down to earth ones by women (ie: blythe) kek.
No.8979
>>8976>some people like it but most people don't.It seems to me that most gay men don't like it either
Flamboyant characters are always the funny ones that are more of a joke by just existing, whether it's in BL by a woman or something meant to be "queer art" by a man
Even the amount of gay stuff that fixates on "straight to gay" or "straight passing" men or whatever is not unlike BL
No.8981
>>8977>maid outfitsNot my thing but Everything else is pretty spot on, with the down-to-earth vibes women have compared to men. I’m not sure how to explain it, but it seems like the male gaze leans toward overindulgence rather than mild idealization or romanticization.
No.8984
>>8979Wow I love this art style, what manga is this from? It won't come up when I reverse image search it
No.8996
>>8976one of the biggest problems when women try to write "realistic" gay men is that realism just means writing straight male characters who have sex with each other rather than writing real gay men, so it's mostly pointless
No.9017
>>9016There’s some josei semes like this
No.9018
>>9016If they were funny instead of annoying/bratty. Tough rope to walk as a twink.
No.9020
>>9016With all these guys wearing puffer jackers and him wearing a tiny skirt and a crop top I know it's a comedy BL, so I'd read it.
No.9021
>>9016Yes and would also smash irl, despite the 3DPD.
No.9024
>>9016yes these are better than the ugly bara fatties that always assault my eyes on mrmm
No.9025
>>9016Maybe the writing would have to be good though, I don't really like characters who behave like sluts.
No.9026
>>9016No. It's not what I look for/like in BL.
No.9028
>>9025but that's what gay men are like irl?
No.9029
>>9028Sure, but what has that to do with BL?