No.13840[View All]
Previous thread:
>>12715Life's not fair, especially for fujoshi. Post your frustrations and things that are on your mind, no matter how harsh it sounds, about advantages everyone else has that fujoshi don't get.
No.14474
>>14469>Did you hallucinate when playing the games?I had a brainfart moment and realized I typed edgeworth not phoenix, didn't realize it until later
>>14470>you'd have a ship with the femc and yusuke become way more popular than the the version with the male mc.This is why I don't want female MCs in Atlus games quite frankly lmao
It's already bad enough dealing with people self-inserting through the MC, that if people are being given a choice from the beginning to either ship the het version of a ship or the fujo version, average atlus rabid yume masquerading as a fujo will 100% choose the femc version. I don't want to deal with a FByleth/MByleth situation where most of the ships were all FByleth either.
>>14471>The SMT5V pairing is just bait and nothing substantial that could offend menIt kind of is, kind of isn't. Like the other anon said, MC and Aogami get constantly mentioned to be soulmates and literally bound to each other. They're never going to kiss or say "I love you" to the other but they are quite literally soulbonded. That's pretty gay as fuck.
No.14475
>>14474>This is why I don't want female MCs in Atlus games quite frankly lmaoFemale MC x Ryoji is nowhere near popular as male MC x Ryoji though. And even if it was, it's not relevant to us fujos. I have no idea what you mean with 'atlus rabid yume masquerading as a fujo'. A yume isn't going to start making content for us because she doesn't have the option to self-insert. But let's say she would, then I wouldn't want any of her shipping content like art or fics anyway because fujo content from a fake fujo would be shit.
>It's already bad enough dealing with people self-inserting through the MCPersona 4 and 5 MCs are self-insert characters though. They have zero personality. You could put the protags of one game into the other and everything would stay the same. You pick all the choices. You raise the MC's attributes so you become the hottest/strongest/smartest guy and all the girls who never would have talked to you in high school fall in love with you. I'm only not mentioning Persona 3 because the movies actually gave him a real personality with actions you can't/won't do in game. I ship Adachi x Yuu but I have to admit the MC is basically an OC and that Dojima x Adachi or Shido x Akechi are 'better' ships. I'd rather see a male character blush and go on dates with a female self-insert and learn more about the character so I can ship him with someone else or imagine him in a mob rape situation than play as a male self-insert and have the same boring waifus fall in love with me ever again. I dropped P3R after they made Shinjiros last pseudo social link about Mitsuru, I won't play the P4G remake and I doubt I'll ever play any future Persona game because I'm tired of devs and writers feeding their female fans scraps fujo or not.
No.14477
>>14475I don't think you know what I meant by "self-inserting through the MC", I meant all of the tranny shit and gender garbage that the Persona fandom is obsessed with. I know that Persona MCs are self-inserts, but there is a difference between "he is fat and trans just like me" vs giving them a personality or using them as a vessel for shipping etc. For the record though, you're wrong that P4 MC is an OC or that he has no personality. He's the one MC that's the sole exception of having a genuine personality of his own that has been pseudo canonized by spin-offs and other media like the 2 anime. Even in regards to Yu/Adachi (which I also ship). It's exactly because he has a bit of a personality that the ship works so well, because it's Yu who keeps insisting wanting to be with Adachi, going even to the lengths to do things for him (accomplice end) which even Adachi can't believe it that he could go that far. Even if you as a player can just choose to ignore Adachi, most material (even the manga that predates golden release) still shows that Yu cares about him in his own right.
> I'd rather see a male character blush and go on dates with a female self-insertI just completely disagree sorry. It sounds to me that you're a hidden yume if you're willing to tolerate female self-insert. At least as a male MC I can ignore the girls and I'm not forced to romance them (p3r thankfully fixed this too), femc writing just twists the characters to inevitably like the femc in ways that are very ooc and if I wanted that I'd just play an otome game.
No.14480
>>14476I didn't think about this so far, but that character does indeed not just look like a female character but like an underaged girl. Which is probably half of the reason for why they like traps to begin with. I assume that the initial kick from fapping to little anime girls is wearing off at some point so they are attracted to the next taboo, especially if the design is exactly the same.
>>14477Fully agree. Yu has probably the strongest MC personality from that series. I ship Yu/Adachi and fucking love what Golden has given us. Which is the main reason for why I didn't need a remake, I doubt that they will add even more Adachi or Yu/Adachi content. The one we have is simply already perfect.
And I agree about the feMC. I played P3 with feMC first, and I disliked how otomelike it felt. Chose feMC because I hoped for more content for the guys but the one I got wasn't really to my liking. Recently replayed P3 (Reload) and liked the male characters better because there was no forced in soppiness.
No.14481
>>14477>I meant all of the tranny shit and gender garbage that the Persona fandom is obsessed withI still don't get it though, you said those people would choose the female MC if there was an option. Isn't that better? They can finally stop shitting up male x male tags then.
>you're wrong that P4 MC is an OC or that he has no personalityI understand your arguments, and his interactions with Adachi are why I ship them. But to me caring about Adachi isn't enough nor distinctive from the P3 or P5 protag.
>It sounds to me that you're a hidden yume if you're willing to tolerate female self-insertKekk sure. I don't self-insert but I don't feel threatend by female self-inserts either if it means I get to enjoy male characters more and female characters less. I also like shoujo (the genre BL originates from) with female protagonists because I like the male characters much better than in shounen. If that makes me a yume then so be it.
>At least as a male MC I can ignore the girls and I'm not forced to romance them You can't ignore them because you will miss out on rewards you get from levelling up their social link and some of them will confess to you before you turn them down.
>femc writing just twists the characters to inevitably like the femc in ways that are very ooc And that's not the case when it happens to a male MC?
No.14482
>>14480You should always play as the FEMC last in P3P. I loved playing as her but the story was written with the male MC in mind first and it shows in several parts of the story like Junpei comparing himself to the MC and getting jealous, or Ryoji having the same voice and face as the MC for plot related reasons.
No.14484
Western fan of story I like:
>You know someone has generally media literate(sic!) if their favorite character is either [lists four female characters, only one of them being part of the core cast]
Japanese fan I follow who reacts to this:
>It's not about literacy, but passion that makes you fall in love. I gladly take all the leftover [gay dude we like] for myself then.
>What otaku need isn't common sense, but enthusiasm and madness!
Bless her. Bless Japanese and Chinese fans, really. They save my soul from despair.
I am so fucking tired of this pathetic virtue signalling. The story is male centered, the MC is male, most of his friends and enemies are. One of the female character the first person listed literally has ZERO traits. That's not me exaggerating, she's literally just part of a group of four randos who ask for something. There you can see that posts like these are utter bullshit.
It's so pathetic. Fucking learn to have fun and post about the shit you like instead of using fandom spaces to LARP a feminist.
Meanwhile I will finish the next fanart of said guy and his mancrush. If they liked those female characters as much as they pretend to do they would make fanart too.
*edit for typos
No.14486
>>14417Their take is wrong but it's ine line with the current trends. Nothing but safe generic BL getting animated, while yuribait is easier to sell to men so it can appear in different genres like mecha and magical girl.
>>14422Not that nonna but I do think Atlus is misogynistic. They don't like their female fans at all. Not only with Yosuke but with how much they neglect Akechi, their other big fujo character who they milk for money but who they will never give closure to because the straight male playerbase hates him. They gave Adachi a lot more because Adachi was "literally me" for most of their moid fanbase.
>>14431Fandom has changed. We can talk about zoomers being too lazy to pirate or too lazy to get into older media, and while that's true, it's ignoring the broader context. People don't want to bother with getting into something with no fans, and fandom is much harder to build up due to everything about the internet now making it harder. Their mindset is a merely a symptom of industries pumping and dumping shows and enshittified social media making it harder to build fan communities unless it's for the most popular media.
>>14467Atlus is like your average gachaslop company except I think even some gachas do better with fujobait, not that it's saying much. Everyone hates us because we alienate incels, yurifags and yumes.
No.14489
>>14446>tfw your fav manhwa are novel adaptations and they always get abruptly fucking cancelled before they even get to the ship moments you wanted to seeThe majority of these novels do not get licensed and MTL being what it is sometimes the webtoon is the only way I can confirm a character's gender or who did what in a scene. I genuinely thought an author had made these twin side characters who fell asleep resting on the MC's chest a boy and a girl just to be even because it kept translating them as shes. Browsing fanart and find a drawing of male MC with two boys snuggled against him. The scene where they come back as adults and try cuddling him again got a whole lot more interesting all a sudden.
No.14491
>>14490Poly is such a fucking meme. Everyone IRL who dips in it are hideous and/or some flavor of "queer." The character has two hands so they can cradle their one and only's face!!!
No.14492
>>14490>>14491Personally, I don't lump poly with multi.
The he has two hands people are genuinely annoying because the entire character must change. Chances are, they've never actually had a poly relationship that works outside of a discord. I ship Megatron and Ratchet, the medic. If I ship him with anyone else at the same time, for a poly ship, it's a new character dynamic. I'd much prefer the other ships to be separate. Being lumped in as poly shippers when I just like options is very annoying
No.14493
>>14490>BUT X HAS TWO HANDSI've never seen these people actually write fics or draw poly art.
No.14494
>>14493It takes understanding of how to write three people in a sharing relationship to do so, which they do not, nor is there anything interesting for them to add. They do it because being presented as more gay/bi than everybody else is how you score online points. The points are invisible. And don't matter to anyone but them.
No.14495
>>14494I still don't understand how polyamory got lumped in with LGBTQIA++ idiocy. It's so weird having these people treat polyamory like it's some profound and inspiring and woke thing when I've never seen an instance of polyamory not crashing and burning spectacularly because it's not a healthy or stable form of partnership. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to force incest under the "queer" umbrella
No.14496
>>14490Is this the new het shipper cope. I've been seeing people recently get upset that when there's a childhood trio some people may only ship a duo and it's like idk especially if there's a girl in the mix not all three of those relationships are written equally. I don't even really ship SoRiku but people trying to push this there when Kairi is sidelined EVEN IN HER OWN GAME and her & Riku are basically in canon said to be more friends with Sora than each other (and even competing for his affections as of the first game) and SoRiku gets way more of a focus. It's a kind of way of guilting people into making more works for their ship but the truth is most het ship fans do not actually want to see the MC making out with his best friend in one panel and then his girl friend the other so it's a strategy that doesn't really work at the end since people are more likely to do SRK (occasionally) & SR solo stuff vs SK & SRK works.
No.14499
>>14496>new het shipper copeit is, especially the example you mentioned with soriku, Kairi is a famous character for yumes to project in because they husbando Sora so they hate Soriku with passion, but because it's so popular they always coped with guilty tripping soriku fans and saying "omg11 misogynist if you don't ship sokai or sorikai at least!".
I also remember fanarts on tumblr from a sorikai artist drawing Kairi as an obvious self insert, like having scars on her body, or instances where she went to highschool and was scolded by the teachers for wearing a too short skirt, it's hilarious now looking back at it how much self insertish fanart was going on in the kh fandom.
No.14500
>>14490Every single polyshipper I've ever seen has been some variety of "I actually ship only these two seriously but that third one can be there for flavoring because it makes me look better". It's hetshippers who ship their favourite girl with their husbando but keep either the lesbian ship or their husbando's designated gay partner around as a decoration and then cry about bisexual erasure if you point it out.
>>14496Exactly. Hetsloppers will literally repeatedly punch themselves in the face than just mind their own business and accept that the gay ship is more popular.
>>14499This also made it to my fandom recently and it's a crystal clear attempt to erase the lesbian and gay ships by forcibly heterofying them as a "polycule" and again if you complain they just try to wokescold you over it, either by calling you a misogynist, a biphobe or whatever other term their bingo cards have.
No.14501
>>14496>>14499>omg11 misogynist if you don't ship sokai or sorikai at least!Kairi is so bland. I would be more upset with the writing than shippers if I actually cared about Kairi.
>fujos are misogynist because they erase women!!!1!>uses the female character as a self-insert>focus is all on husbando or male in het ship No.14502
>>14501better yet care about other female characters, the obsession with kairi specifically stems from her love interest with Sora. Which is what all self insert is bothered with
No.14503
>>14492Same. TBH I never encounter polyshippers aka people that ship a character with multiple ones within the same timeframe, pic or fic. Multishippers yeah. I always have a OTP but sometimes it's interesting seeing a character being in a different role or part of a different dynamic as long as the canon has enough going for it.
Your Transformers pic is a good example because there is gayness between Megatron and Optimus, Megatron and Starscream and probably more in almost every single TF series. For the comics he was also very close and in sync with Ultra Magnus after turning from enemies, to forced coworkers that mock each other to the eventual close comrades at the end. Just as an example.
I have never seen the "two hands" meme so far tbh.
No.14504
>>14495My headcanon is that most of the misunderstandings and issues with this part of the fandoms stem from the fact that they conflate friendship with romance.
This why they're also purity fags and why there is a high chance that they'll call a ship problematic the second it's obvious non-platonic and sexual in canon. It also explains poly because to them poly is essentially just a fucking friends' group. Notice how most of them never draw or reblog actual porn or talk much about it.
It also explains the trans hype. They conflate male and female traits (99% of them are artificial and the product of conservative social roles) with trans. If a woman is pragmatic, cool, likes videogames and fights physically she must be trans because they interpret everything as sex/gender-related that is simply just personality.
This is also why they don't understand why fujos are drawing yaoi and not yuri. Because they cannot tell feminism apart from sexuality. Fujos draw for sexual reasons. The others like the female characters for representation or whatever and to them it's the same, so they are angry that fujos don't care or assume they're trans.
Notice how they mostly like men/yaoi but still draw every woman like a hentai bimbo because they cannot tell women/femininity apart from sex because media fried their brains.
No.14505
>>14502There's quite a few better het ships in KH than SoKai, the most boring option besides maybe Roxas and Xion. Repliku / Namine come to mind. Even Kairi and Lea are more interesting. Kairi is so bland that she's begging the narrative to care about her.
I would hate to self-insert into Kairi even if I was a Sora yume. Why would I want to be sidelined passively in the background instead of actually going on adventures? She sucks.
No.14506
>>144959 years and going strong in my own. It can work, it just literally takes honestly at all times and brain chemistry to work. I'm naturally distant and don't live with any one of them. How I like it.The couples you see failing on socials or in insular friend groups are trying to make something work that usually can't. Ours works because it was by accident
No.14507
>>14501>I would be more upset with the writing than shippersI'm sure they're upset at both. Tumblrinas were very disappointed in Kairi and Aqua after KH3 came out. Rightfully so, but it was nice to see the “yes slay queen Aqua” crowd finally hit a wall and shut up.
It still baffles me there are people who’ve spent hours playing as a character whose entire story arc consists of tagging along behind two boys because her master orders her to—and who chases after one of them in every sense of the word—and these fans told themselves that KH finally had a strong, independent woman. It’s hard to ignore how the rise of headcanons and self-insertion coincides with the decline in reading comprehension.
No.14510
>>14507>It’s hard to ignore how the rise of headcanons and self-insertion coincides with the decline in reading comprehension.It's especially bad with games and comics because many fans today don't consume the original directly, they form their opinions by reading wikias, watching let's plays or (even worse) youtube reviews and thinkpieces.
I already met fans who learned to hate the very thing they were fans of the moment they finally engaged directly with it because turns out, it had nothing in common with the distorted version in their head that was formed by secondary and tertiary sources.
No.14511
>>14510As somebody who doesn't enjoy specific genres but likes a good story, I kind of hate admitting I watched a game, generally with no commentary on but people that did play can be worse because they refuse to acknowledge simple themes over hype moments. Ask any NieR Automata player about 2B and 9S' relationship. There's a high chance they didn't care after Ending A and not once considered the characters' individuality. There's a higher chance they didn't play past ending A.
I would rather someone watch a game I like and internalize it vs someone playing it and missing everything. See Kingdom Hearts.
No.14512
>>14481This is a fujo board. No one cares if you like seeing "male characters blush for female characters", it's still not enjoying actual homo ships because they get taken over by yumes who want to focus on the girl being romanced. I don't want to read about that, so I want the male character blushing for another man. Whenever games have a femc option the fujo option is actually less popular, because yumes are actually more abundant, they're louder, and they don't bother male fans as much because they're still into hetero ships. "But male mcs can be OOC"- doesn't matter, it's still not yume, its yaoi. It's a fujo board, can we get one space that isn't caping for het?
No.14514
This thread has reminded me how two seme one uke used to be a classic set up, but so many times they'd make one of the seme an actually horrid person who never communicated just to establish why he was a rival and couldn't just get together with the uke normally. The worst is when the author realizes people liked the bad boy seme so they suddenly gotta 180 and make him soft and misunderstood.
No.14516
The yaoi making young women into FtMs debate is so annoying when nobody transitioned 15-20+ years ago, and there's not a FtM overabundance in other cultures. There's also clearly an element of self-insertion and imagining themselves as actual gay men.
No.14517
>>14509>Nobody has an obligation to like any character, especially poorly written female ones for the sake of a performance.I think it's bizarre that instead of being peeved at writers being utterly unable to introduce female characters with proper agency or an interesting personality these people will just yell at the fans for not posturing and forcing themselves to be a fan of said female character. They reason it with "well if it was an equally badly written male character you'd have a million fangirls rewriting them a personality" but this isn't the issue here. For a lot of people it's the general annoyance that instead of writers learning to treat female characters as people they're supposed to do the work for them. And yeah, for many women there is the excitement of exploring possibilities with a male character because they don't come with the same baggage as their experience as a woman does. For example, I absolutely hate rape being used as a plot point for a female character and it immediately makes me drop the series, but for a male character sexual assault isn't as, for the lack of a better word, triggering. Or when a female character is written to be beautiful, nurturing and loving, it annoys me because we never get morally gray female characters with cool designs and instead they're always supposed to be the supporting pillar, but for a male character it's subversive. The way we perceive media is always affected by our experiences as a woman and I'm really sick and tired of people pretending like our tastes should exist in a vacuum.
No.14519
>>14505because canon romance with Sora that's why.
There could be other 10 interesting female characters with personalities and it wouldn't matter because there is no sight of romance with them.
No.14521
i like watching this fe tuber because his streams are pretty funny and entertaining most of the time but god sometimes he whines like a fucking chud this time about ike x soren and how its 'disgusting' to taint their brotherly love or some shit blah blah muh sam x frodo which is stupid as fuck when in the same stream there are jokes about the lesbian turned straight 'fixing' her but thats ok i guess
why the fuck do some guys take fujos and yaoi so fucking personally???
No.14522
>>14516Anecdotally, they definitely did (in the US, at least), I'm older and knew many 20+ years ago, they were just quieter and assimilated better/didn't mention their gender/transition when getting involved in fandom spaces. I don't think it's as simple as "yaoi turns young women into trannies" but it might make the prospect more appealing. I think it's far more likely that there's an overlap between fandom/mental illness/online spaces in general where young women are exposed to this. It's impossible to escape.
No.14523
>>14521Who is this? I wanna avoid him
No.14525
>>14522>I'm older and knew many 20+ years ago, they were just quieter and assimilated better/didn't mention their genderSame. Pretty much every man that was on LJ was trans. Honestly gender never came up much in fandom, I just assumed everybody writing fic was a girl until informed otherwise.
>>14518I also feel this way about m!Corrin. He was novel to me. Customizing him to a grown ass adult acting like that was really funny.
No.14526
Hey nonnas, if you see R18 nsfw hetslop shits & it`s goddamn disrespectful to both male and female characters, the male-female being buddies and she's sassy who takes no shit from everyone, how would you deal with it?
Smh hetslop either make her from bitchy to obedient, not wonder hetfags are hated
No.14527
>>14525Yeah and they were way more enjoyable to interact with. I knew a guy for 5+ years and had no idea he was trans until he made a private LJ entry about a surgery and needing to take some time away, he just came across as a (rare, but still existent) gay man in fandom. Wasn't making cuntboy art or shoving his identity into everyone's face. I really miss what "old fandom" used to be like and the people in it, however they identified.
No.14528
>>14292I've seen fujos actually give a damn writing actual decent, well-written female characters than what fujohaters claimed. The guys get the hot gay tension anyway.
No.14529
>>14528It's never enough for them
because the female character isn't the focus and/or the romantic interest. No matter what fujos do to improve their reputation, it will NEVER be enough because the goalpost will always move no matter how far the writing or art goes. We need to learn to let all of those criticisms slide off our backs and continue writing/drawing two men fucking.
No.14530
>>14517>it's bizarre It’s mental gymnastics and a form of obsession. It’s easier and more gratifying to point the finger at others for *insert reason why you’re a better person/fan than them* than to admit that the work you’ve become emotionally invested in is mediocre, or that you’re worshiping your own image projected onto a character. It's all this bullshit boils down to.
No.14531
>>14270>This one is also annoying because I would rather that my fave female characters just not exist in fandom, rather than get mischaracterized as motherly-types or get drawn with tits bigger than their heads by pervy men.Uuugh I feel ya Nonna, every porn hetslops I seen mostly my favorite female characters reduced to self-insert chud's obedient dickriding bitches or if drawn by manhating femcel yuritards, they'd be used as tools to 'smash muh patriarchy!'.
Sucks how nowadays can't enjoy yaoi or independent female characters without being trophy girlfriends by incels/femcels.
No.14534
>>14529I'm in a fandom where people shoehorn the female character who's a friend of the two male characters being shipped and it's so performative it's pathetic. I rather they just not draw it at all because a good chunk of her fanart is just her attached at the hip to the guys. It makes me feel bad for genuine fans of her because she's trated as an accessory but in a "woke" way.
No.14535
>>14526I try & block and move on. I'm guilty of shipping some (objectively) hetslop ships but I can't stand the way both men & women hetshippers characterize them and unironically fujos, whether out of guilt or genuine interest, are better at avoiding the typical hetcoom "narrowing" of characters in a het ship even if they mischaracterize their yaoi ships (go figure, kek). I don't get why so many of them like off-the-rail characters, even insane yanderes but like to "tame" them when in a relationship, especially when two people are just friends hetshippers are allergic to keeping the same chemistry after they get in a relationship and make them shy around each other when before they took no shit. This is why Lovely Complex is a manga I like because they're just as stupid around each other after they get into a relationship and are genuinely friends and have common interests.
No.14558
>>14557tbf that's pretty true to life with gay men kek
No.14559
>>14558that's why I'm okay with yaoi being unrealistic